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Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
A question to those that give the expertise feat for free
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<blockquote data-quote="Stalker0" data-source="post: 5195229" data-attributes="member: 5889"><p>In my opinion there are two separate arguments going on.</p><p></p><p>1) The players need the "expertise equivalent" in order to be of proper strength to fight the monsters of their level.</p><p></p><p>2) The players need the "expertise equivalent" in order to maintain the same chance of success with their hitting at high levels.</p><p></p><p></p><p>To the first one I think the answer is emphatically no. Based on my experience and experiences I've heard on the boards, players get stronger vs equivalent level monsters as they gain levels. In other words, you have to offer higher level challenges more frequently in order to provide the same level of challenge.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The second one is trickier to answer. I do believe in the psychology of the hit rate...that players need to be succeeding in the 70% ballpark to feel "good" about their abilities. However, it comes down to the question I have asked many many times...and unfortunately its still a hard one to answer.</p><p></p><p>How much do high level powers make up for a reduction in the to hit rate?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Enough people have looked at the math and determined that players to hit rates do go down compared to monster's defenses at high levels....when you look at base numbers. To me, this is a closed issue.</p><p></p><p>But the much harder analysis is how do powers influence the numbers, how about combat advantage, leader buffs, powers that allow weapon attacks vs NADs, etc.</p><p></p><p>I can say the one time I tried to model a combat for high level (my 24th level mock epic fight) it took a grueling amount of time for me to compile everything, and its definitely not something I would want to do again. It would be nice now that more people are getting to those levels that perhaps people can record attack rates from their fights so we can get some actual numbers on the subject.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Stalker0, post: 5195229, member: 5889"] In my opinion there are two separate arguments going on. 1) The players need the "expertise equivalent" in order to be of proper strength to fight the monsters of their level. 2) The players need the "expertise equivalent" in order to maintain the same chance of success with their hitting at high levels. To the first one I think the answer is emphatically no. Based on my experience and experiences I've heard on the boards, players get stronger vs equivalent level monsters as they gain levels. In other words, you have to offer higher level challenges more frequently in order to provide the same level of challenge. The second one is trickier to answer. I do believe in the psychology of the hit rate...that players need to be succeeding in the 70% ballpark to feel "good" about their abilities. However, it comes down to the question I have asked many many times...and unfortunately its still a hard one to answer. How much do high level powers make up for a reduction in the to hit rate? Enough people have looked at the math and determined that players to hit rates do go down compared to monster's defenses at high levels....when you look at base numbers. To me, this is a closed issue. But the much harder analysis is how do powers influence the numbers, how about combat advantage, leader buffs, powers that allow weapon attacks vs NADs, etc. I can say the one time I tried to model a combat for high level (my 24th level mock epic fight) it took a grueling amount of time for me to compile everything, and its definitely not something I would want to do again. It would be nice now that more people are getting to those levels that perhaps people can record attack rates from their fights so we can get some actual numbers on the subject. [/QUOTE]
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