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<blockquote data-quote="Lonely Tylenol" data-source="post: 3133949" data-attributes="member: 18549">The situation you describe in the first sentence is pretty much the same as the situation you describe in the second sentence.&nbsp; In the first sentence, the DM is ignoring the skill check outright, and in the second, he may be ignoring it by stacking a ton of situational modifiers on it.&nbsp; As Rich Burlew points out with his analysis of Diplomacy, it's DM's fiat either way.&nbsp; If you add modifiers you're either going to add enough modifiers to make sure there's a pretty good chance of success, in which case you want the PC to be able to accomplish the task, and you might as well just let him roll anyway, or you don't want the PC to be able to accomplish it, and you'll add enough modifiers that he has no chance, in which case you should have just told him not to buy social skills.Rich came up with his own solution to the problem, which I think is pretty good.&nbsp; The site is apparently down right now or I'd link it.&nbsp; It makes Diplomacy into a negotiation skill rather than a &quot;making people like me&quot; skill.&nbsp; If the PC can provide x and wants to get y, then the skill fills in for the difference in value between x and y, where x and y are anything that might be considered valuable, from an item to an action, or in extreme cases, nothing at all.I have to wonder if a similar strategy could be taken with Intimidate.&nbsp; Use the same tables, but make x seem more valuable than it would be under Diplomacy, with the caveat that the character with y knows he's being hosed and will probably take measures to retaliate after a minute or so.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lonely Tylenol, post: 3133949, member: 18549"] The situation you describe in the first sentence is pretty much the same as the situation you describe in the second sentence. In the first sentence, the DM is ignoring the skill check outright, and in the second, he may be ignoring it by stacking a ton of situational modifiers on it. As Rich Burlew points out with his analysis of Diplomacy, it's DM's fiat either way. If you add modifiers you're either going to add enough modifiers to make sure there's a pretty good chance of success, in which case you want the PC to be able to accomplish the task, and you might as well just let him roll anyway, or you don't want the PC to be able to accomplish it, and you'll add enough modifiers that he has no chance, in which case you should have just told him not to buy social skills. Rich came up with his own solution to the problem, which I think is pretty good. The site is apparently down right now or I'd link it. It makes Diplomacy into a negotiation skill rather than a "making people like me" skill. If the PC can provide x and wants to get y, then the skill fills in for the difference in value between x and y, where x and y are anything that might be considered valuable, from an item to an action, or in extreme cases, nothing at all. I have to wonder if a similar strategy could be taken with Intimidate. Use the same tables, but make x seem more valuable than it would be under Diplomacy, with the caveat that the character with y knows he's being hosed and will probably take measures to retaliate after a minute or so. [/QUOTE]

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