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<blockquote data-quote="airwalkrr" data-source="post: 6126147" data-attributes="member: 12460">Well I do believe within the 3e/PF architecture there is certainly no need for bonus spell slots based on your casting ability score. Perhaps you could maintain that while skewing the bonus spell slots to lower level spells. For example:[code]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Bonus Spell (by Spell Level)Ability Score&nbsp; 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th10-11&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -12-13&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -14-15&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -16-17&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -18-19&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -20-21&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -22-23&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -24-25&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -26-27&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -28-29&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -30-31&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -32-33&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -34-35&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -36-37&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -38-39&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -40-41&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 6&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -42-43&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 6&nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -44-45&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 6&nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -[/code]That would definitely give casters a lot fewer high-level spell slots, but still leave them with lots of low-level slots which they can frequently use for less earth-shattering effects. Compare a 20th-level wizard with a starting 15 Int, +5 level ups and a +6 Int item who would have a 26 Int total. Under the existing formula, he would have 6/6/6/6/5/5/5/5/4. Using the formula proposed above he would instead have 8/7/6/4/4/4/4/4/4. It's not a huge difference though.Another way to reduce spell slots might be to skew them based on class instead. Make the attainment of the next spell slot in each spell level progressively more difficult. Perhaps something like this (using the wizard as an example):[code]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Spells by Level Wizard Level&nbsp;&nbsp; 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th1st&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -2nd&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -3rd&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -4th&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -5th&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -6th&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -7th&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -8th&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -9th&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -10th&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -11th&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -12th&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -13th&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -14th&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp;&nbsp; -15th&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -16th&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; -17th&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; 118th&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; 119th&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; 120th&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp;&nbsp; 1[/code]Of course, that gives you a lot of levels with not a lot going on. But I suppose you could argue that the inherent power of higher-level spell slots makes that a bit more balanced. In this case, you might be able to get away with using the bonus spell slots as written. Or if you wanted to give wizards a little more actual spellcasting to do, use the table above for limited bonus spell slots.Spell points, especially the system presented in Unearthed Arcana (3.5), is a good way to limit caster's use of high level spell slots. It also limits the effect by requiring 1 spell point for each caster level you want to add to the effect. That does present some problems though. It makes a magic missile at ninth caster level cost as much as a cone of cold cast at ninth caster level. So all it really does in practice (I have used it before) is force casters to prepare utility spells that do not depend on caster level in their lower level slots and prepare the damage-dealing, save-or-suck, or earth-shattering spells in their higher level slots. But if you take away the extra spell point cost for higher caster level, the lower-level spells, then spells like magic missile just become too cheap. And either way, spell-point systems eliminate the sorcerer niche and also tend to reduce the efficacy of other spontaneous casters (not that the sorcerer is a strictly necessary class, but many players like it).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="airwalkrr, post: 6126147, member: 12460"] Well I do believe within the 3e/PF architecture there is certainly no need for bonus spell slots based on your casting ability score. Perhaps you could maintain that while skewing the bonus spell slots to lower level spells. For example: [code] Bonus Spell (by Spell Level) Ability Score 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 10-11 - - - - - - - - - 12-13 1 - - - - - - - - 14-15 2 - - - - - - - - 16-17 2 1 - - - - - - - 18-19 3 1 - - - - - - - 20-21 3 2 - - - - - - - 22-23 3 2 1 - - - - - - 24-25 4 2 2 - - - - - - 26-27 4 3 2 - - - - - - 28-29 4 3 2 1 - - - - - 30-31 5 3 2 1 - - - - - 32-33 5 4 2 1 - - - - - 34-35 5 4 3 1 - - - - - 36-37 5 4 3 2 - - - - - 38-39 5 4 3 2 1 - - - - 40-41 6 4 3 2 1 - - - - 42-43 6 5 3 2 1 - - - - 44-45 6 5 4 2 1 - - - -[/code] That would definitely give casters a lot fewer high-level spell slots, but still leave them with lots of low-level slots which they can frequently use for less earth-shattering effects. Compare a 20th-level wizard with a starting 15 Int, +5 level ups and a +6 Int item who would have a 26 Int total. Under the existing formula, he would have 6/6/6/6/5/5/5/5/4. Using the formula proposed above he would instead have 8/7/6/4/4/4/4/4/4. It's not a huge difference though. Another way to reduce spell slots might be to skew them based on class instead. Make the attainment of the next spell slot in each spell level progressively more difficult. Perhaps something like this (using the wizard as an example): [code] Spells by Level Wizard Level 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 1st 1 - - - - - - - - 2nd 2 - - - - - - - - 3rd 2 1 - - - - - - - 4th 3 1 - - - - - - - 5th 3 2 1 - - - - - - 6th 3 2 1 - - - - - - 7th 4 2 1 1 - - - - - 8th 4 3 2 1 - - - - - 9th 4 3 2 1 1 - - - - 10th 4 3 2 1 1 - - - - 11th 4 3 2 2 1 1 - - - 12th 4 4 3 2 1 1 - - - 13th 4 4 3 2 1 1 1 - - 14th 4 4 3 2 2 1 1 - - 15th 4 4 3 2 2 1 1 1 - 16th 4 4 3 3 2 1 1 1 - 17th 4 4 4 3 2 2 1 1 1 18th 4 4 4 3 2 2 1 1 1 19th 4 4 4 3 2 2 1 1 1 20th 4 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 1 [/code] Of course, that gives you a lot of levels with not a lot going on. But I suppose you could argue that the inherent power of higher-level spell slots makes that a bit more balanced. In this case, you might be able to get away with using the bonus spell slots as written. Or if you wanted to give wizards a little more actual spellcasting to do, use the table above for limited bonus spell slots. Spell points, especially the system presented in Unearthed Arcana (3.5), is a good way to limit caster's use of high level spell slots. It also limits the effect by requiring 1 spell point for each caster level you want to add to the effect. That does present some problems though. It makes a magic missile at ninth caster level cost as much as a cone of cold cast at ninth caster level. So all it really does in practice (I have used it before) is force casters to prepare utility spells that do not depend on caster level in their lower level slots and prepare the damage-dealing, save-or-suck, or earth-shattering spells in their higher level slots. But if you take away the extra spell point cost for higher caster level, the lower-level spells, then spells like magic missile just become too cheap. And either way, spell-point systems eliminate the sorcerer niche and also tend to reduce the efficacy of other spontaneous casters (not that the sorcerer is a strictly necessary class, but many players like it). [/QUOTE]

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