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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Willie the Duck" data-source="post: 9815037" data-attributes="member: 6799660">I share the frustration with the constant deluge of third party gaming marketing, which included framing that you are not gaming right without their product or that their product will cure all your gaming ills (many of which you didn't know you had/were problems until their ad made it clear). That said, I'm frustrated with all the unbelievable amount of gaming-associated... chaff, I'll call it... that pervades this hobby. It isn't like we didn't have heartbreakers and novelty dice and dungeon tiles you know you'll never use and everything else bitd, but at least there was a notion that the person making it was indeed a gamer and thought they were providing a product someone needed. Now when I go to (for instance) the roleplaying Reddit pages, I'll see multiple adds for punch out monster tiles or inlaid mahogany gaming tables or dice that holographically give you the finger when you roll a 1 or whatever before I even get to things like 3rd party modules or DM advice guides or the like. The internet + monetization sucks all around. Thus I'm a little surprised that this one aspect of it has risen to being not just noteworthy but thread-starting-worthy. Was there something particularly egregious about the messaging?We started to touch on it in this thread, but I've always wondered about survivorship bias in this. We wouldn't be having this discussion if we hadn't put up with negative experiences x, y, and z and gotten to whatever level of gaming we have as adults. I think many-to-most of us knew one kid or another who tried D&D or RQ or something, but didn't stick with it (or else we know some adult in the Star Trek/Wars or WoW or Warhammer fandom, etc. who undoubtedly was exposed to D&D, etc. and isn't an active gamer). Would they have stuck with it 'if' -- whatever that 'if' is, but including things like better GMing advice?I'm sure we've almost all heard a smattering of anecdotal tales (although the real kicker is the people to which you never get to pose the question). This player wanted to play Robin Hood meets Indiana Jones but their DM wanted to play dungeons threats and treasure acquisition. This DM had an epic narrative quest planned, but his players just wanted something to do until their turn on the Atari. This player got made fun of because they didn't know what a glaive was (they weren't allowed to watch Krull on TBS) and didn't come back. This DM discovered being into model rockets meant they didn't need to find a way over to Jimmy's house after school. There always seemed to be 2-3 times as many kids in the 'seems like they would play RPGs' camp as there were those actively playing. By the time you get to high school and half those kids are doing math league or debate or a job (or just actually have to do homework for the first time) and that number grows precipitously.Despite having just written a 'we've all had that experience' kind of paragraph above, I think it is important to recognize that we really don't know what things are like for everyone else. Particularly those just starting out at gaming (or DMing). Do they feel the need for GM-aid products? Do only a few, but those that do have real trouble because the good ones are lost in a sea of grifter products? Would I even know (short answer: no)?</blockquote>

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