Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
A rant on ASF
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="fuindordm" data-source="post: 2457575" data-attributes="member: 5435"><p>First, because I'm not defining 'more powerful' as simply damage output. It's true that the wizard still has the edge in damage dealing, especially if they prepare ahead of time for that sort of thing.</p><p></p><p>But many, many of the best wizard spells (offensive, defensive, and utility) are now part of domains. Check it out:</p><p></p><p>Air: chain lightning, whirlwind</p><p>Destruction: disintegrate, implosion</p><p>Earth: stoneskin, iron body</p><p>Fire: Fire shield, wall of fire, firestorm</p><p>Knowledge: detect thoughts, legend lore, discern location</p><p>Strength: stoneskin, Bigby's hand spells</p><p>Travel: fly, dimension door, teleport</p><p>Trickery: invisibility</p><p>War; power words</p><p>Water: ice storm, cone of cold, horrid wilting, acid cloud...</p><p></p><p>Add to that the Summon Monster spells (now good for clerics as well as wizards), inflict wounds/harm, flame strike, divine favor/divine power, and so on... I think it's easier to make a cleric that is an effective spellcaster in combat than a wizard, because there are so many spells they can take that are always good for something.</p><p></p><p>Yes, the cleric will be going into melee more because they have more hp, BAB, and armor. But a cleric who just casts spells can be just as effective as a wizard who just casts spells in combat. It's not because the cleric has more buffs and the wizard has more choices in dealing damage that the wizard is more powerful.</p><p></p><p>Clerics also have the edge, I find, in making magic items. The full spell list access really helps there, if you like that sort of thing.</p><p></p><p>Finally, I really believe that the rule was added to preserve the stereotype only, not for any sort of game balance... all the reasons are given in the rant, and I'm not going to repeat them.</p><p></p><p>But as you say, it's every DM's choice. I just started this thread to complain about a small segment of the rules that I find poorly motivated and internally inconsistent. And perhaps to evangilize a little...</p><p></p><p>Cheers,</p><p>Ben</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="fuindordm, post: 2457575, member: 5435"] First, because I'm not defining 'more powerful' as simply damage output. It's true that the wizard still has the edge in damage dealing, especially if they prepare ahead of time for that sort of thing. But many, many of the best wizard spells (offensive, defensive, and utility) are now part of domains. Check it out: Air: chain lightning, whirlwind Destruction: disintegrate, implosion Earth: stoneskin, iron body Fire: Fire shield, wall of fire, firestorm Knowledge: detect thoughts, legend lore, discern location Strength: stoneskin, Bigby's hand spells Travel: fly, dimension door, teleport Trickery: invisibility War; power words Water: ice storm, cone of cold, horrid wilting, acid cloud... Add to that the Summon Monster spells (now good for clerics as well as wizards), inflict wounds/harm, flame strike, divine favor/divine power, and so on... I think it's easier to make a cleric that is an effective spellcaster in combat than a wizard, because there are so many spells they can take that are always good for something. Yes, the cleric will be going into melee more because they have more hp, BAB, and armor. But a cleric who just casts spells can be just as effective as a wizard who just casts spells in combat. It's not because the cleric has more buffs and the wizard has more choices in dealing damage that the wizard is more powerful. Clerics also have the edge, I find, in making magic items. The full spell list access really helps there, if you like that sort of thing. Finally, I really believe that the rule was added to preserve the stereotype only, not for any sort of game balance... all the reasons are given in the rant, and I'm not going to repeat them. But as you say, it's every DM's choice. I just started this thread to complain about a small segment of the rules that I find poorly motivated and internally inconsistent. And perhaps to evangilize a little... Cheers, Ben [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
A rant on ASF
Top