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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Technik4" data-source="post: 1029238" data-attributes="member: 7211">I have issues with the bard in general. I know they were going for a Poor, Medium, Good progression with spellcasting, but it seems like too many classes got "Good". Everyone hurrah-ed when druids and clerics got 9 levels of spells (IIRC they only had 7 in 2ed) but why were bards left behind?Consider this, a bard has a HD slightly larger than a wizard or sorceror, but less than a cleric or druid. He has the ability to cast in armor, but not as much as a druid or cleric, but more than the wizard or sorceror. And his BAB is equal to the druid and cleric, but more than wizard or sorceror.For all that he is weaker than the druid or cleric, youd think he would have more to show for it than a couple class abilities. I mean, his best spell is inherently 3 points behind on DCs, just because a bards best is only 6th vs 9th. Not to mention, he gets those later than everyone else. What was the reason again? Clerics and druids have equal if not better attack, utility, and healing spells. Bards only rule with a couple niche spells (doesnt the druid have a couple niche spells?), otherwise they are enchanter/illusionists a few levels behind the real thing.I would like to see a d8 Full BAB bard with other abilities as 3.5, or full 9th level spell progression with everything as 3.5. Obviously, its easier to add a few points of BAB and a couple hit points than it is to create 3 more levels worth of spell lists, then extend both the spell/day and the known spells charts.If the ranger can score a d8, I think the bard could (should?) too, at least as long as he is left with his weak spellcasting (but stronger than ranger's). For further comparisons to the ranger, they both have the same skill points, and they both have 2 good saving throws. Ranger has a host of abilities which easily outstrip bardic song and knowledge, as well as a better HD, better BAB, and he still has spells (although far weaker than the bard).It would also be nice if there was a built-in mechanic so that a bard could take sorceror levels to improve bardic spellcasting, at the cost of reducing nearly all stats and missing out on bardic abilities for a few levels.Technik</blockquote>

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