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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lord Pendragon" data-source="post: 1030045" data-attributes="member: 707">Re: how about as a PrCThe bard is already generally considered the weakest class in the game.  Who in the world would take it as a prestige class?  It'd have to be powered up far more than we're talking here to be attractive vs. the Arcane Trickster, that's for sure...I don't think this holds water.  You can't base a class's BAB on their ability to buff.  If you could, then the wizard has a +15 (Greater Magic Weapon), the cleric has a +20 (same), and the druid, wildshaped into a dire ape and animal growthed...well, let's just say it's high. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />You also can't say "with bardic music the bard's BAB is nearly as high as a fighter's" because you're forgetting that bardic music also effects the fighter.  So while the bard has a +19 at 20th-level, his bardic music is also giving his fighter buddy a +24.  Again, the bard is left behind.Which flavor are you talking about, game-wise, literature-wise, legend-wise?D&D-wise, PA already gave a good answer.  literature-wise, I'm hard-pressed to find any fightin' bards (save perhaps Robin of Locksley, who could arguably have been a bard or a rogue, or perhaps a multiclass).  But I'm just as hard-pressed to find a cleric in full-plate, so it's a wash.  Legend-wise, again, the other D&D staples are as absent as the bard.I think a part of what the bard represents is the swashbuckler, more than the fighter or the rogue.  The agile PC who whistles a merry tune as he's fighting the mooks up the staircase, then swings across the ballroom on a chandelier.  That archtype deserves a better BAB.When you say "too strong" what are you comparing it to?  Do you believe such a bard would be more powerful than a wizard?  Or a druid?  Or a ranger?  (I'm dropping cleric.  After all, we definitely don't want something as or more powerful than the cleric! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />)</blockquote>

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