NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5450703" data-attributes="member: 42582">While this is true, I think it isn't the whole truth.First, 4e has rules for attacking (basic attacks plus class-specific powers), bullrushing, dodging (total defence), grappling (grab) etc. Unlike 3E it doesn't have a generic trip or disarm manoeuvre - although I'm one of those who think these can be adjudicated using p 42 - but then 3E doesn't have a generic power-strike manoeuvre (you need the appropriate feat) whereas HARP (one of ICE's fantasy RPGs) does.So the difference isn't actually that marked. The 4e player says "I grapple!" The GM in 4e responds the same as the GM in 3E, by applying the rules. The 4e player says "I trip!". The 4e GM responds the same as the GM in 3E does to "I powerstrike!" from a player without the Power Attack Feat - maybe s/he disallows it, maybe s/he wings it (using p 42 in the 4e case - and in the 3E case presumably relying on intuition).Second, what if a new 3E player says "I want to use my kit shield to push away the one on my left, while stabbing the one on my right!". Within the framework of 3E's PHB, this is a two-weapon attack which has almost no chance of success for a standard 1st level Fighter, and is pretty sub-optimal even for well-designed Rangers.Likewise for bullrushing, disarming etc. Most of these are mechanically pretty complex and unlikely to be sensible actions for any PC not at least modestly optimised in favour of them.If the game provides formal options that are pretty suboptimal for typical approaches to play (like use efficient atttacks against the monsters if you want to avoid TPK), then they not so much genuine options as traps for newbies.Now it's true that 4e's equivalent of this is the basic attack, which is likely to come into play more often. But the PHB makes it pretty clear that most PCs most of the time won't be relying on basic attacks.</blockquote>

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