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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aberzanzorax" data-source="post: 5453958" data-attributes="member: 64209">I quoted this thread before, but I want to bring up a few points from it. <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/254968-experts-other-systems-why-arent-they-d-d.html" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/254968-experts-other-systems-why-arent-they-d-d.html</a> Saying 4e isn't D&D is mainly problematic because it is a volatile way of saying it. However, the conclusion in that thread was basically "D&D can't really be definied beyond personal preference, feel, and the Name Brand (TM)". 4e is D&D officially because the owners of the name brand call it that. If they call the ravenloft board game D&D, so it will be. But the ravenloft board game is not D&D to me. How can I say such outrageous things? Well if you think about it not as a defense of 4e, but actually make an attempt to define what D&D is as your starting point, you'll see some interesting themes emerge.  I ask people who know more about other systems why they AREN'T D&D. It's easy to see that World of Darkness isn't D&D. What about Castles and Crusades? What about Rolemaster? What about Pathfinder?  When you start exploring the boundaries of "what is D&D" starting from OD&D roots, and then extrapolating out, it becomes harder and harder to justify certain things (including 3e and 4e) as D&D without also claiming that other games, games that no one would ever really call D&D, are D&D as well. Need to roll a d20? Kult.Needs fantasy themes? Warhammer Fantasy.Needs levels? WOW. Or the converse...Needs Vancian Magic? No to 4e.Needs Thac0? No to 3e.  In the end, I think it is perfectly justifiable to say 4e (or 3e, or Castles and Crusades, or Pathfinder, or Osric) doesn't feel like D&D to me.</blockquote>

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