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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5460445" data-attributes="member: 87792">I'm not disagreeing. But to take your first food analogy, 3e comes with indifferently cooked and very heavily spiced vegetables already on the plate. Sure, it's a full meal. But the vegetables don't to me taste good - far far too much spice.&nbsp; Which will remain even if you try to serve your own vegetables.&nbsp; And although the menu is massive, the actual choice amounts to &quot;You can have anything you like as long as it's curry.&quot; 4e on the other hand comes with a bowl full of vegetables that most people confuse with packing material (and with good reason) that needn't make it as far as the plates. It also comes with some very good vegetables on the supplemental menu (the Eberron and Dark Sun Campaign Guides) although far fewer of them than on the 2e and 3e supplemental menus.&nbsp; Or I can cook my own vegetables - and I like cooking.&nbsp; I simply can't match the quality of 4e's meat.&nbsp; But between the prime salmon, the ribeye steak, or the chicken florentine there's enough variety that I'm unlikely to have a clash of my vegetables with the meat dish.&nbsp; Unlike 3e's strong curries which are just going to make most vegetables I cook seem ... bland beside them.&nbsp;Or to borrow from a Pathfinder/4e thread, &quot;Pathfinder does very well the things I enjoy doing for myself. 4e does very well the things I have real problems doing for myself.&quot;&nbsp; (Paraphrased)&nbsp;And [MENTION=29358]Crazy[/MENTION]-Jerome, there's one serious problem IME with trying to write down examples of skill challenges the way I use them. It's like trying to bottle lightning. The specific PC ideas help determine the DCs at least as much as what skills they are using.&nbsp; And I must get round to finishing writing up my guide to skill challenges.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5460445, member: 87792"] I'm not disagreeing. But to take your first food analogy, 3e comes with indifferently cooked and very heavily spiced vegetables already on the plate. Sure, it's a full meal. But the vegetables don't to me taste good - far far too much spice. Which will remain even if you try to serve your own vegetables. And although the menu is massive, the actual choice amounts to "You can have anything you like as long as it's curry." 4e on the other hand comes with a bowl full of vegetables that most people confuse with packing material (and with good reason) that needn't make it as far as the plates. It also comes with some very good vegetables on the supplemental menu (the Eberron and Dark Sun Campaign Guides) although far fewer of them than on the 2e and 3e supplemental menus. Or I can cook my own vegetables - and I like cooking. I simply can't match the quality of 4e's meat. But between the prime salmon, the ribeye steak, or the chicken florentine there's enough variety that I'm unlikely to have a clash of my vegetables with the meat dish. Unlike 3e's strong curries which are just going to make most vegetables I cook seem ... bland beside them. Or to borrow from a Pathfinder/4e thread, "Pathfinder does very well the things I enjoy doing for myself. 4e does very well the things I have real problems doing for myself." (Paraphrased) And [MENTION=29358]Crazy[/MENTION]-Jerome, there's one serious problem IME with trying to write down examples of skill challenges the way I use them. It's like trying to bottle lightning. The specific PC ideas help determine the DCs at least as much as what skills they are using. And I [I]must[/I] get round to finishing writing up my guide to skill challenges. [/QUOTE]

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