Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
A reason why 4E is not as popular as it could have been
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5460878" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>As has been pointed out, it has 17.</p><p></p><p>Rolemaster has between dozens and hundreds of skills (depending on edition).</p><p></p><p>HeroWars/Quest has an infinite number of skills/attributes, because of its free-descriptor approach to character building.</p><p></p><p>Until you tell me what the point is of your skill system, and what principle you've used to determine how many skill there are, I have no idea whether it's good or bad.</p><p></p><p>And if your answer to that question is "I want to reduce all possible areas of human excellence and activity to a manageable number of categories" then you're already presupposing purist-for-system simulationism.</p><p></p><p>For the same sort of reasons that HeroWars/Quest has simple and extended contests.</p><p></p><p>It's to do with pacing, complexity of conflicts, handling complications, etc.</p><p></p><p>It about making the mechanics serve the metagame, rather than making the players of the game subordinate their metagame priorities to the mechanical system. I posted about this in detail upthread (#246).</p><p></p><p>This is true, but not the whole truth. They also structure resolution in important ways (to do with pacing, injection of complication, etc). The example in Rules Compendium is a very good demonstration of this feature of skill challenges (although WotC don't actually explain what it is demonstrating, but leave it as an exercise for the reader - for example, the example involves a GM injecting a complication as a result of the skill challenge where the complication <em>does not result from that failure via any ingame causal process</em>, but nowhere does the rulebook actually talk about using this sort of metagame-heavy technique for resolving skill challenges).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5460878, member: 42582"] As has been pointed out, it has 17. Rolemaster has between dozens and hundreds of skills (depending on edition). HeroWars/Quest has an infinite number of skills/attributes, because of its free-descriptor approach to character building. Until you tell me what the point is of your skill system, and what principle you've used to determine how many skill there are, I have no idea whether it's good or bad. And if your answer to that question is "I want to reduce all possible areas of human excellence and activity to a manageable number of categories" then you're already presupposing purist-for-system simulationism. For the same sort of reasons that HeroWars/Quest has simple and extended contests. It's to do with pacing, complexity of conflicts, handling complications, etc. It about making the mechanics serve the metagame, rather than making the players of the game subordinate their metagame priorities to the mechanical system. I posted about this in detail upthread (#246). This is true, but not the whole truth. They also structure resolution in important ways (to do with pacing, injection of complication, etc). The example in Rules Compendium is a very good demonstration of this feature of skill challenges (although WotC don't actually explain what it is demonstrating, but leave it as an exercise for the reader - for example, the example involves a GM injecting a complication as a result of the skill challenge where the complication [I]does not result from that failure via any ingame causal process[/I], but nowhere does the rulebook actually talk about using this sort of metagame-heavy technique for resolving skill challenges). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
A reason why 4E is not as popular as it could have been
Top