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<blockquote data-quote="DMZ2112" data-source="post: 7631482" data-attributes="member: 78752"><p>Maybe I'm not understanding you, but the situation seems /worse/ with contested rolls. Most monsters can't beat a 20, and the rogue will roll a 23 more than half the time and higher the other half.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>While I do on occasion design encounters in which hiding is unhelpful or impossible, generally speaking I come down the other way, on this: it /should/ be assumed. Denying the opportunity to hide has to be pretty carefully gauged, at least in combat. The rogue is clearly designed with the expectation that they will at least have the chance to get sneak attack every round. Usually this is a matter of keeping enemies engaged, but not always. Negating the rogue's combat potency is a kick in the fork to the player's fun.</p><p></p><p>Not having to roll is also not fun, in my experience, which is where I'm coming from on this. I'd just like the rogue to be /capable/ of failure under normal circumstances, even if that failure is a rare occurrance.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I would have asked a different question if I had a problem challenging a rogue otherwise. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is where my head's at just now. The rogue just... ignores bounded accuracy, after a point.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Those are some loud leaves, but I take your point. However, even with a massive +10 to the roll your average CR 11 monster has a check result range of 11 to 31 and is still /guaranteed/ to fail more than half the time -- regardless of the rogue's result. I'm terrible at probability math but I think the monster's actual odds are worse than 3:1 against.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DMZ2112, post: 7631482, member: 78752"] Maybe I'm not understanding you, but the situation seems /worse/ with contested rolls. Most monsters can't beat a 20, and the rogue will roll a 23 more than half the time and higher the other half. While I do on occasion design encounters in which hiding is unhelpful or impossible, generally speaking I come down the other way, on this: it /should/ be assumed. Denying the opportunity to hide has to be pretty carefully gauged, at least in combat. The rogue is clearly designed with the expectation that they will at least have the chance to get sneak attack every round. Usually this is a matter of keeping enemies engaged, but not always. Negating the rogue's combat potency is a kick in the fork to the player's fun. Not having to roll is also not fun, in my experience, which is where I'm coming from on this. I'd just like the rogue to be /capable/ of failure under normal circumstances, even if that failure is a rare occurrance. I would have asked a different question if I had a problem challenging a rogue otherwise. :) This is where my head's at just now. The rogue just... ignores bounded accuracy, after a point. Those are some loud leaves, but I take your point. However, even with a massive +10 to the roll your average CR 11 monster has a check result range of 11 to 31 and is still /guaranteed/ to fail more than half the time -- regardless of the rogue's result. I'm terrible at probability math but I think the monster's actual odds are worse than 3:1 against. [/QUOTE]
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