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A Reliable Talent for Expert Stealth
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<blockquote data-quote="Flamestrike" data-source="post: 7633630" data-attributes="member: 6788736"><p>No, you're reading it wrong. There are three RAW preconditions for Hiding.</p><p></p><p>1) Break LOS sufficiently (so you can no longer be ''seen clearly'').</p><p>2) DM agrees that the circumstances (<u><strong>other than breaking LOS</strong></u>) are sufficient to enable hiding.</p><p>3) Succeed in Stealth check via the Hide action opposed by an relevant opponents Passive Perception score.</p><p></p><p>The rules already cover breaking LOS. You do that at Step 1. The 'circumstances' to be taken into account by the DM to decide if you can/ cannot attempt to hide are circumstances OTHER than simply breaking LOS.</p><p></p><p>For example, you're being closely observed as you move to your hiding spot and/or and your hiding spot is blindingly obvious.</p><p></p><p>Following the above RAW flowchart:</p><p></p><p>1) Break LOS: You move to a lone pillar in the middle of an empty room in full view of the enemy as he watches you closely slinking over to the pillar. You duck behind the pillar and break LOS. Check.</p><p>2) DM adjudication: The DM rules that in this circumstance (under close observation, and your hiding spot is blindingly obvious) you cannot attempt to Hide (or more correctly, you can - your check just auto fails).</p><p>3) Stealth Check: You take the Hide action anyway. Your Stealth check auto fails.</p><p></p><p>That is <strong>RAW</strong>.</p><p></p><p>Simply 'breaking LOS' is not (and has never been) the only step in hiding from someone. The DM also needs to agree that it's possible for you to Hide from your target, given the circumstances of your attempt.</p><p></p><p><u><strong>Example 1</strong></u>:</p><p></p><p>You're on the run from some Ogres. You enter a room with 3 exits and a large chest. The Ogres are in a nearby room and cant see you. You enter the chest, close the lid (LOS broken, step 1 met) and the DM agrees that the circumstances enable an attempt to Hide. You make your Stealth check and if successful, the Ogres run into the room, and have no idea you're there.</p><p></p><p><u><strong>Example 2:</strong></u></p><p><u><strong></strong></u></p><p>You're on the run from some Ogres. You enter a room with 3 exits and a large chest. The Ogres are in the same room as you and are watching you closely. You enter the chest, close the lid (LOS broken, step 1 met) and the DM rules that the circumstances (you're being watched closely by the Ogres as you climb into the chest) do not enable an attempt to Hide. Your Stealth check is automatically unsuccessful, the Ogres open the chest and beat you to a bloody pulp.</p><p></p><p><u><strong>Example 3</strong></u>:</p><p></p><p>You're on the run from some Ogres. You enter a room with 3 exits and a large chest. The Ogres are watching you closely. You enter the chest, close the lid (LOS broken, step 1 met) and then (peering through the keyhole) <em>Dimension door</em> to one of the nearby hallways and duck behind a wall. The DM agrees that these circumstances enable an attempt to Hide. You make your Stealth check and if successful, the Ogres open the chest, and a confused look comes over their face, when you're not in there.</p><p></p><p>Can you see the difference in these three examples? See how the (DM step) is one of common sense?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Flamestrike, post: 7633630, member: 6788736"] No, you're reading it wrong. There are three RAW preconditions for Hiding. 1) Break LOS sufficiently (so you can no longer be ''seen clearly''). 2) DM agrees that the circumstances ([U][B]other than breaking LOS[/B][/U]) are sufficient to enable hiding. 3) Succeed in Stealth check via the Hide action opposed by an relevant opponents Passive Perception score. The rules already cover breaking LOS. You do that at Step 1. The 'circumstances' to be taken into account by the DM to decide if you can/ cannot attempt to hide are circumstances OTHER than simply breaking LOS. For example, you're being closely observed as you move to your hiding spot and/or and your hiding spot is blindingly obvious. Following the above RAW flowchart: 1) Break LOS: You move to a lone pillar in the middle of an empty room in full view of the enemy as he watches you closely slinking over to the pillar. You duck behind the pillar and break LOS. Check. 2) DM adjudication: The DM rules that in this circumstance (under close observation, and your hiding spot is blindingly obvious) you cannot attempt to Hide (or more correctly, you can - your check just auto fails). 3) Stealth Check: You take the Hide action anyway. Your Stealth check auto fails. That is [B]RAW[/B]. Simply 'breaking LOS' is not (and has never been) the only step in hiding from someone. The DM also needs to agree that it's possible for you to Hide from your target, given the circumstances of your attempt. [U][B]Example 1[/B][/U]: You're on the run from some Ogres. You enter a room with 3 exits and a large chest. The Ogres are in a nearby room and cant see you. You enter the chest, close the lid (LOS broken, step 1 met) and the DM agrees that the circumstances enable an attempt to Hide. You make your Stealth check and if successful, the Ogres run into the room, and have no idea you're there. [U][B]Example 2: [/B][/U] You're on the run from some Ogres. You enter a room with 3 exits and a large chest. The Ogres are in the same room as you and are watching you closely. You enter the chest, close the lid (LOS broken, step 1 met) and the DM rules that the circumstances (you're being watched closely by the Ogres as you climb into the chest) do not enable an attempt to Hide. Your Stealth check is automatically unsuccessful, the Ogres open the chest and beat you to a bloody pulp. [U][B]Example 3[/B][/U]: You're on the run from some Ogres. You enter a room with 3 exits and a large chest. The Ogres are watching you closely. You enter the chest, close the lid (LOS broken, step 1 met) and then (peering through the keyhole) [I]Dimension door[/I] to one of the nearby hallways and duck behind a wall. The DM agrees that these circumstances enable an attempt to Hide. You make your Stealth check and if successful, the Ogres open the chest, and a confused look comes over their face, when you're not in there. Can you see the difference in these three examples? See how the (DM step) is one of common sense? [/QUOTE]
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