A requisite for High Elves

[Edena_of_Neith]

Elves have always been a pretty popular race.
They were the race with the higher level attainment capabilities, under the old 2nd Edition rules. They were the ones you could play as a mage plus practically any other class.
Elves had (and have) the famous Bladesinger class. Elves have the Archer class. Elves have (and in 2nd Edition, especially had) all manner of special abilities.

Ok, fair enough. Elves are (or, at least in 2nd Edition, were) pretty special people. Special people, with special privileges and abilities that made them a preferred race to play. I suppose that even now, in this 3rd edition world where dwarves and gnomes and halflings can be fighter/mage/clerics or whatever, elves still hold a special place in the hearts of many players.

Forrester has bitterly spoken out against this reality, and I have seen others speak eloquently (or, not so eloquently) concerning the special advantages of playing an elf.

Well, I say ... high elves should have a special disadvantage, to go along with all those advantages.
This disadvantage should be in line with the racial alignment, which is Chaotic Good.
This disadvantage should go along with the classic stereotype of elves as being good, lofty, noble beings (nevermind the OTHER stereotype of elves being snotty, racist, bigoted creeps.) I'm talking HIGH Elves here ... you know, the fun-loving, frivolous, flighty, music playing, dancing, lore-wise, gentle, reasonable, intelligent, wise, lofty, Fair Folk.

High elves should ... not be able to kill or harm (using the broadest possible interpretation of harming) other high elves.
High elves, should be able to instinctively recognize other high elves (as a Supernatural Power), unless they are concealed by magic.

A high elf who accidentally kills another high elf should be afflicted with permanent, debilitating insanity (curable by a Heal or Restoration spell, but the act will still be a lifelong source of grief.)
A high elf who kills another high elf by accident, should be the source of horrified pity of all other high elves.

It should not even be a thinkable (read: the elf cannot think of such a deed) act, to kill or harm another high elf.

Even EVIL high elves should be held to this restriction.
Assuming evil powers, such as the Minions of Bane, manage to alter the elf so that these restrictions are removed ... the elf loses all his or her special abilities, permanently! Or, that elf metamorphoses into a drow, which is worse.

- - -

Absolutes make for poor campaigns, in my book.
The above restrictions need not be as absolute as stated. A more complicated scenario is possible, in which behavioral traits and personalities are explored.
Nevertheless, all high elves should have some form (some severe form) of limitation on their capacity to deliberately bring harm down on their own kind.

Just my opinion.

With great power comes responsibility. The Crown Wars - elf against elf - permanently devastated vast regions of Faerun, and permanently broke the power of the elves ... this is something they should have learned from, no? They ARE supposed to be intelligent, lofty beings ...

 

[Dark Jezter]

Looks like somebody has been reading Lord of the Rings.

Truthfully, I don't really care for setting and authors that place elves on a pedestal and make them impossibly good. I think that elves should be capable of evil just like any other race. If humans are portrayed as reckless and irresposible and dwarves are portrayed as greedy and reclusive, I think elves should be portrayed as haughty and arrogant treehuggers.

(End rant)

 

[Crothian]

I think if you have this severe of a penalty then High Elves need a lot more then they give in the books.

 

[Geoff Watson]

Looks like somebody has been reading Lord of the Rings.

Not really.
The elves in Middle-Earth have had battles and wars between the different elf groups. Eg: the Noldor nearly wiped out the Sindar.

Elves are really unpopular in the group I play with. It seems to be a backlash against the super-powerful elves in previous editions, and the 'elves are good and right, regardless of what they do' stuff in many novels. Only one player has played an elf PC in a very long time, and that was a arrogant pretty-boy homosexual stereotype played for laughs in a one-off campaign.

Geoff.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Agreed.
High Elves deserve significant bonuses (munchkinizing, as some would call it.) They should be on a par with their Underdark brethren, the Drow.

There needs to be at least one strongly, powerfully Good (or lofty, enlightened, nice, pleasant, noble, tolerant, loving, caring, or whatever you want to call it) race.
After all, there are enough evil races. Take the drow alone (nevermind that Drizzt Do'Urden person ...) Or, how about the Duergar (What's yer fer?!) The orcs (We ate all the elves of Evereska, said Forrester) The goblins (Down, down, to Goblin-Town you go, my lad!) The kobolds (Where ARE those Morganti blades?)
Hmmm ... or how about the worst, most monstrously evil race of all? The gnomes ...

 

[Anabstercorian]

Ah, Forrester. No one could play an orc like he could... "We're gonna kill all the soldiers, eat all the children, burn all the churches, rape all the women, and then eat EVERYBODY, and we're gonna have FUN! WHEEE!!!" Good times, good times.

I like your idea of a surface equivalent of Drow elves, just as powerful, and as Good as they are Evil. That'd be pretty nice, actually... What sort of abilities would you give them?

 

[Drakron]

Oh great FR crap ...

At least make some notice so I can avoid reading it.

And elves are fine as they are.

 

[Gez]

I posted this on the Wizards boards.

Originally posted by Mordrayn:
Since the elves are obviously on the decline, "retreating" slowly but surely and constantly giving up lands to the aggressor races (e.g. humans, goblinoids, orcs, etc), their once huge and beautiful empires all but lost to myth ...

First reason why they're lawful (of the lawful-loser variety), rather than chaotic.

Elves, all things considered, reactionnary. They reject change, innovation, and novelty, which are seen as threats and agressions. This reject is not a carefully, all-things-put-in-the-balance, rejection -- it's irrational, gut-instinct reaction, new=bad, period.

Their reactionnary mindset shows in:

Nostalgia. It was better before. Convinced that the world goes to hell, that the old ways (who were, by definition, superior) are forgotten or perverted, and that everything now is but a shallow reflect of the glorious, obviously glorious old times; they live in the past. An idealized past. Back in the days, wondrous, awe-inspiring mythals were everywhere. The folks lived in peace and harmony, magic and culture blossomed, the world was healthier and the grass greener.

Resentment. Things now are awful, but that's the fault of these foreign devils. The races of elf, human, dwarf, gnome and hin lived in peace and were happy under the just, enlightened, benevolent and wise rulership of our admirable Coronals, until, sadly, we trusted them too much and allowed them in our country (rather than friendily shooting all tresspassers on sight). Oh, blessed Seldarine, what folly have we made ? All Hells break loose, and the traitors we called our friend destroyed everything we have achieved; jalous of our grandeur, and unable to rivalize, they preferred to undermine the wonders of elfcraft, by their mere presence. We tried to avoid the worse by massacring them all without mercy, but it was too late. May these demons be cursed !

Isolationnism. When you don't want to acknowledge the changes, and you don't think you can fight it, the only option is to flee. Flee to another, pure, world, uncontaminated by the insidious presence of those that don't think like you. The elves had Evermeet for that, and the other folk should be thankful for the existance of that island, because otherwise, the will to start anew is synonym to genocide (like Chinese Great Jump Forward or the red khmer's mass murder of 1/3 their country's population). As the old world was profaned by the foul presence of these damn subelven hords, breeding like rodents and even more destructive, we had no choice but flee to the safety of Evermeet, the promised land, the Torilian Paradise. There, in our exile, we would wait until the parasitic infestation, deprived of the Light coming from our Grandeur, kill themselves and die all to the last. Then, only then, we could go back to Faerûn and heal the poor land. Meanwhile, we would revel in our beauty and safekeep our magnificent sacred traditions, without any corrupting outsider influence.

Scapegoatism. We pose the postulate that the world is going on its doom. Why ? because it was better before, and things continue to go worse because they can't go better, since change can't be to the better, only blind and total obedience to the ancestral tradition is good, remember. We also pose the postulate that it's the bloody stranger's fault, that's obvious, they're not like us, so they're responsible for everything that goes bad (and everything goes bad because it was better before). Naturally, if the perturbative elements (non-elves) are removed, things will stop to get worse. So, killing non-elves will save the world. Eldeth Veluuthra ! Victorious blade of the People, lead us to the destruction of the Not-People devils ! From their shed foul blood, green forests will grow high and strong ! May the Seldarine bless us in this most holy quest against Evil aliens !

The elves never miss the opportunity of claiming their suporiority above everyone. They are especially contemptuous of humans, and always reminds them of things like "We were already building flying crystal castle when you were wearing crude bear skin and hid in caves, hurling feces at each others". That's because their alignment is not chaotic good, but lawful loser.

Were they not so snuck-up in their idea everything was better before, fate is unfair toward their absolute perfection, and that's all the fault of human, they would recognize the fact.

And the fact is, they're a senile race. Great irony, isn't it ? While the individual elves are ageless, their collective unconscious is senile. Their neurons have hardened and can't bend now, only shatter. Their mind is old, rusted, crippled. They claim they could build flying crystal castle before ? Well, why can't they now ? They forgot all their wonders, because they're old, aged, and dying. They have all but themselves to blame for that, their stubborn grumpiness is what accelerate their decline.

But it's so easier, when you're old, at death's door, suffering from Alzheimer memory troubles, and Parkinson muscular control troubles, to remind the young healthy adults you have seen them in diapers and wetting their bed. It's so easier to close your mind and refuse to see the real decadence than to accept to see the fact and change your ways...

Now, it's the elves who are in diapers, as their sphincter control is dead, they move in wheelchair, and spend their days in bed, watching soap-operas and insulting the nurse who comes to empty the pot.

And everyone find they are cool. They aren't. They would be if they were chaotic good as they are supposed to.

 

[William Ronald]

Interesting post, Gez.

So, what can be done to change the image of elves in 3E.

I liked ColonelHardisson's mention of Michael Moorcock's Corum series. The Vadhagh were truly not involved in the world around them, which lead to great tragedy.

Some campaigns have elves that are more of a Tolkien flavor. Others chose more of a Moorcock flavor: otherworldly, sometimes sad and weary, but capable of great passion. (Hmm, why does this sound a little like a cross between the Minbari and the Centauri of Babylon 5. )

Perhaps elves can be portrayed with a sense of curiosity and wonder about the world. As such, they might have a strong tendency towards optimism and be open to new experiences. Such an attitude would probably serve a long lived race well. This might explain a tendency for elaborate celebrations. Each party could be a new experience.

They may well have a bit of a tragic history. People, no matter how long lived, may make mistakes. Perhaps a willingness to admit some responsibility for the mistakes of the past and a willingness to find some way to rectify them. ("We isolated ourselves from our potential allies. If we had forged stronger ties of friendship with them, perhaps Myth Drannor would not have fallen.") However, isolationism is another possibility. Sometimes, people who have been hurt will isolate themselves.


Aloofness is also a possible consequence of living a millenia or more when many other races do not even live half as long. Perhaps a bit of shyness with the aloofness, with some elves warming up to people over time. (In Star Trek, Spock was an interesting example of this. Despite his outward show of calm and stoicism, the occassional bursts of emotion showed what lay beneath the facade.)

I think elves would have as much potential for good as for evil. While culture may mitigate against this somewhat, it is still possible for a character to reject the dominant trends of his society.

Obviously, different elven societies can take different approaches. This can be seen in some of the published settings. The elves of Highfolk seem to be less isolationist than those of Celene in the World of Greyhawk setting.

Traditionally, in myth and folklore, the sidhe, the alfar, and other creatures that served as the foundation of D&D elves had an element of other worldliness. Perhaps this element can be stressed. Perhaps a close look at myth and folklore is recommended. An elf should not just be a human with pointed ears.

So, what do YOU think?

 

[mistergone]

Well, it's your campaign, right? Who says you have to follow how elves are at all in the PHB or any other rulebook. Just copy the category heading under the race description and fill them in with your own details. I mean think about it. It's fine and well to really like elves, or any other race. But you don't like they way they are being portrayed in one setting? Change them. Or don't use that setting. OR do what tons of people do and take what you like and change what you don't like. Rattling off a lil manifesto about how elves SHOULD be is kinda weird, but hey, we all have our opinions and sometimes we gotta share them.

Personally, I don't like the way elves are done in the PHB. So, in my campaign, I just decided I wanted them to be diferent and BLAMO! They were different. Yeah yeah, I know, my powers are great. This is why I long for a fantasy game that uses a system similar to Mutants & Masterminds. That way, you could make your own elf how you wanted it, and not have to tweak the existing rules. Meanwhile, I just tweak the existing rules.

As for High Elves being a good version of the drow, I disagree, and don't care for that idea. I have reasons but they aren't important, because if YOU think they should be like that, then you can make them like that in your game. Just don't expect everyone else to love it. Some will, some won't. Whaddaya gonna do, eh?