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<blockquote data-quote="Particle_Man" data-source="post: 1479936" data-attributes="member: 892">First of all, (and with all due respect) you are wrong about how many sneak attacks/round rogues get.&nbsp; The rogue can make a sneak attack with every single attack it has, if it is flanking.&nbsp; Thus a 20th level rogue could, with the proper two-weapon fighting feats, make 6 attacks/round and thus potentially get +60d6 damage, each round.&nbsp; That's a lot.Second, unless you are running solo games, a rogue can almost always get a flanking opportunity, in an &quot;up front&quot; fight, as you describe.&nbsp; There are exceptions (vs. undead, constructs, etc.) but in general, rogues are useful in combat in D&amp;D.&nbsp; And this isn't &quot;hide in a corner and jump someone&quot; combat, but &quot;You hit him high, I'll hit him low.&nbsp; Charge!&quot; combat.&nbsp; Unless your combats are frequrently on the level of &quot;Stand back!&nbsp; This one is mine!&quot; but that is pretty rare in games I run or play.&nbsp; Does that happen often in your games?Back to Rifts.&nbsp; I have played Rifts.&nbsp; I played a Cyber-Knight.&nbsp; Someone else played a Juicer.&nbsp; We both felt sorry for the Renegade Dog Boy.&nbsp; And no one even tried the wilderness scout, rogue scientist, or city rat.&nbsp; So yes there are a lot of classes, but some of them suck compared to others, so they are just a waste of paper, really.&nbsp; Unless you force people to choose only those classes, in which case the players are restricted from the &quot;power&quot; classes, which them become the waste of paper.&nbsp; Either way, people are pretty restricted in their real options, which is odd considering the &quot;play anything&quot; idea behind the game setting.In D&amp;D, one can play every class without worrying nearly as much about sucking all the time, compared to everyone else.&nbsp; And it is possible to make a d20 game that captures all the flavor of Rifts, while remaining balanced.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Particle_Man, post: 1479936, member: 892"] First of all, (and with all due respect) you are wrong about how many sneak attacks/round rogues get. The rogue can make a sneak attack with every single attack it has, if it is flanking. Thus a 20th level rogue could, with the proper two-weapon fighting feats, make 6 attacks/round and thus potentially get +60d6 damage, each round. That's a lot. Second, unless you are running solo games, a rogue can almost always get a flanking opportunity, in an "up front" fight, as you describe. There are exceptions (vs. undead, constructs, etc.) but in general, rogues are useful in combat in D&D. And this isn't "hide in a corner and jump someone" combat, but "You hit him high, I'll hit him low. Charge!" combat. Unless your combats are frequrently on the level of "Stand back! This one is mine!" but that is pretty rare in games I run or play. Does that happen often in your games? Back to Rifts. I have played Rifts. I played a Cyber-Knight. Someone else played a Juicer. We both felt sorry for the Renegade Dog Boy. And no one even tried the wilderness scout, rogue scientist, or city rat. So yes there are a lot of classes, but some of them suck compared to others, so they are just a waste of paper, really. Unless you force people to choose only those classes, in which case the players are restricted from the "power" classes, which them become the waste of paper. Either way, people are pretty restricted in their real options, which is odd considering the "play anything" idea behind the game setting. In D&D, one can play every class without worrying nearly as much about sucking all the time, compared to everyone else. And it is possible to make a d20 game that captures all the flavor of Rifts, while remaining balanced. [/QUOTE]

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