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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
A ropey issue
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<blockquote data-quote="Cleon" data-source="post: 8142410" data-attributes="member: 57383"><p><strong><span style="font-size: 26px">Additional Notes</span></strong></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 22px"><strong>Stretchiness</strong></span></p><p>Ropes stretch before they break. I couldn't find elasticity data for actual hemp with some casual internet browsing, but manila rope has a breaking strain of 20% according to smackdock and that fibre appears to have pretty similar properties to hemp. The percentage is how much longer the fibre gets before it snaps, meaning a 50 ft. length of rope will generally stretch to 60 ft. in length before it breaks under a load.</p><p></p><p>Regular silk from insect cocoons can have a wide range of breaking strains from 4% to 40%, with Mulberry silkworm silk ranging from 10-23.4% according to Wikipedia at least. Let's call it a nice round 20% on average, meaning a 50 ft. length of insect's silk will generally stretch to 60 ft. in length before it breaks under a load. It'd be more convenient if standard silk rope is made to be as "stretchy" as hempen rope.</p><p></p><p>Dragline spider silks (dragline silk, produced by the spider's Major Ampullate gland, being the strongest kind of silk spider's produce in terms of its maximum breaking load) appear to have breaking strains ranging from 18% to 33% according to Wikipedia. Let's call it 25% on average, so a 50 ft. length of spider's silk can stretch up to 62.5 ft. before it breaks.</p><p></p><p>However, Flag silk, produced by the spider's Flagelliform gland is MUCH stretchier, with breaking strains up to 400% (so they can stretch up to five times their length without breaking), although 270% is an average figure quoted by <a href="https://askentomologists.com/2017/01/13/why-is-spider-silk-so-strong-can-we-scale-it-up/" target="_blank"><strong>Ask an Entomologist</strong></a>. Unfortunately, flag silk is also far weaker, with typical breaking loads around half that of dragline silk, although its "toughness" (ability to absorb damage) is almost as good.</p><p></p><p>A really stretchy rope is of limited usefulness in nautical applications - a set of rope stays to keep a mast in position would be pretty useless it they're so elastic the mast flexes from side to side - but would be very handy for safety nets, climbing ropes, bungee cords and the like, since they can absorb damage by stretching under the impact of a blow or fall.</p><p></p><p>Come to think of it, that <em>could</em> justify the low Break DCs and Hardness 5 of a Monstrous Spider's webbing. The "capture portion" of a spider's web is made of flag silk, not the more load-resistant dragline silk. The hardness represents the web's ability to stretch without being damaged. So if you take a Large Monstrous Spider webbing's Break DC 17 and add its hardness of 5 to make 22, the 2-point difference between that and a spider silk's rope Break DC 24 is a sort-of-match to 2× increase in carrying capacity a 5-point increase in Strength produces (which'd increase a character's Strength modifier by +2 or +3).</p><p></p><p>'Course that's bending "reality" to match the numbers rather than vice-versa, but at least it's consistent.</p><p></p><p>Incidentally, nylon rope appears to have a breaking strain of 25 to 50%, which I believe/suspect varies according to the type of nylon. I haven't bothered trying to find out more since it didn't seem that germane to D&D rope use!</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 22px">Notes on Falling Damage</span></strong></p><p>Being secured by a rope does not make the impact from a fall disappear. It just (hopefully) shortens the distance.</p><p></p><p>Let's say you're an adventure climbing the Forbidden Cliff of Sheer Doom! with a hempen rope, one end of which is tied to you and the other end is secured to a piton in the Cliff of Doom. There's a 40 ft. length of rope between the piton and the rope harness you've rigged for yourself.</p><p></p><p>You've found a secret door 20 feet below the piton, but while trying to open it you fluff your Climb check and fall. The rope stops you falling once it stretches to 40 ft., so you would take damage from a 20 ft. fall (the rope's length minus the 20 ft. height the piton was above you).</p><p></p><p>That's why climber's keep on securing pitons just above them!</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 22px"><strong>Conclusion</strong></span></p><p>If you wish to add "really stretchy ropes" to your game, may I suggest:</p><p></p><p><strong>Rope, Spider's Climbing, 50 ft. (Homebrew)</strong>: An ingenious mix of different monstrous spider silks, this rope has 6 hit points and can be burst with a DC 24 Strength check. If you fall while secured with the rope it will stretch, reducing the falling damage by 5 points. The rope's tough but elastic silk can stretch up to one and a half times its normal length (75 ft.). A spider's climbing rope is about 1/2 inch thick and can support 1,300 pounds safely, or up to 3,900 lbs with an increasing risk of it breaking. <strong>Price </strong>100 gp, <strong>Weight</strong> 5 lb.</p><p></p><p><strong>Rope, Spider's Elastic, 50 ft. (Homebrew)</strong>: This rope has 5 hit points and can be burst with a DC 23 Strength check. If you fall while secured with a spider's elastic rope the rope will stretch to absorb the falling damage. If there's enough height for you to fall four times the rope's normal length without hitting an obstacle (such as the ground) you take no falling damage, otherwise the effective falling distance is the rope's normal length reduced by 10 feet for every 30 feet of height the rope can stretch before you hit the obstacle. A spider's elastic rope is about 1/2 inch thick and can support 900 pounds safely, or up to 2,700 lbs with an increasing risk of it breaking. <strong>Price </strong>100 gp, <strong>Weight</strong> 5 lb.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cleon, post: 8142410, member: 57383"] [B][SIZE=7]Additional Notes[/SIZE][/B] [SIZE=6][B]Stretchiness[/B][/SIZE] Ropes stretch before they break. I couldn't find elasticity data for actual hemp with some casual internet browsing, but manila rope has a breaking strain of 20% according to smackdock and that fibre appears to have pretty similar properties to hemp. The percentage is how much longer the fibre gets before it snaps, meaning a 50 ft. length of rope will generally stretch to 60 ft. in length before it breaks under a load. Regular silk from insect cocoons can have a wide range of breaking strains from 4% to 40%, with Mulberry silkworm silk ranging from 10-23.4% according to Wikipedia at least. Let's call it a nice round 20% on average, meaning a 50 ft. length of insect's silk will generally stretch to 60 ft. in length before it breaks under a load. It'd be more convenient if standard silk rope is made to be as "stretchy" as hempen rope. Dragline spider silks (dragline silk, produced by the spider's Major Ampullate gland, being the strongest kind of silk spider's produce in terms of its maximum breaking load) appear to have breaking strains ranging from 18% to 33% according to Wikipedia. Let's call it 25% on average, so a 50 ft. length of spider's silk can stretch up to 62.5 ft. before it breaks. However, Flag silk, produced by the spider's Flagelliform gland is MUCH stretchier, with breaking strains up to 400% (so they can stretch up to five times their length without breaking), although 270% is an average figure quoted by [URL='https://askentomologists.com/2017/01/13/why-is-spider-silk-so-strong-can-we-scale-it-up/'][B]Ask an Entomologist[/B][/URL]. Unfortunately, flag silk is also far weaker, with typical breaking loads around half that of dragline silk, although its "toughness" (ability to absorb damage) is almost as good. A really stretchy rope is of limited usefulness in nautical applications - a set of rope stays to keep a mast in position would be pretty useless it they're so elastic the mast flexes from side to side - but would be very handy for safety nets, climbing ropes, bungee cords and the like, since they can absorb damage by stretching under the impact of a blow or fall. Come to think of it, that [I]could[/I] justify the low Break DCs and Hardness 5 of a Monstrous Spider's webbing. The "capture portion" of a spider's web is made of flag silk, not the more load-resistant dragline silk. The hardness represents the web's ability to stretch without being damaged. So if you take a Large Monstrous Spider webbing's Break DC 17 and add its hardness of 5 to make 22, the 2-point difference between that and a spider silk's rope Break DC 24 is a sort-of-match to 2× increase in carrying capacity a 5-point increase in Strength produces (which'd increase a character's Strength modifier by +2 or +3). 'Course that's bending "reality" to match the numbers rather than vice-versa, but at least it's consistent. Incidentally, nylon rope appears to have a breaking strain of 25 to 50%, which I believe/suspect varies according to the type of nylon. I haven't bothered trying to find out more since it didn't seem that germane to D&D rope use! [B][SIZE=6]Notes on Falling Damage[/SIZE][/B] Being secured by a rope does not make the impact from a fall disappear. It just (hopefully) shortens the distance. Let's say you're an adventure climbing the Forbidden Cliff of Sheer Doom! with a hempen rope, one end of which is tied to you and the other end is secured to a piton in the Cliff of Doom. There's a 40 ft. length of rope between the piton and the rope harness you've rigged for yourself. You've found a secret door 20 feet below the piton, but while trying to open it you fluff your Climb check and fall. The rope stops you falling once it stretches to 40 ft., so you would take damage from a 20 ft. fall (the rope's length minus the 20 ft. height the piton was above you). That's why climber's keep on securing pitons just above them! [SIZE=6][B]Conclusion[/B][/SIZE] If you wish to add "really stretchy ropes" to your game, may I suggest: [B]Rope, Spider's Climbing, 50 ft. (Homebrew)[/B]: An ingenious mix of different monstrous spider silks, this rope has 6 hit points and can be burst with a DC 24 Strength check. If you fall while secured with the rope it will stretch, reducing the falling damage by 5 points. The rope's tough but elastic silk can stretch up to one and a half times its normal length (75 ft.). A spider's climbing rope is about 1/2 inch thick and can support 1,300 pounds safely, or up to 3,900 lbs with an increasing risk of it breaking. [B]Price [/B]100 gp, [B]Weight[/B] 5 lb. [B]Rope, Spider's Elastic, 50 ft. (Homebrew)[/B]: This rope has 5 hit points and can be burst with a DC 23 Strength check. If you fall while secured with a spider's elastic rope the rope will stretch to absorb the falling damage. If there's enough height for you to fall four times the rope's normal length without hitting an obstacle (such as the ground) you take no falling damage, otherwise the effective falling distance is the rope's normal length reduced by 10 feet for every 30 feet of height the rope can stretch before you hit the obstacle. A spider's elastic rope is about 1/2 inch thick and can support 900 pounds safely, or up to 2,700 lbs with an increasing risk of it breaking. [B]Price [/B]100 gp, [B]Weight[/B] 5 lb. [/QUOTE]
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