A rules twiddy

[Liquide]

Well I'll not be so long in my introduction so here we go

I'm pondering about creating a spell (Druid list primaraly) that in theory enlarges/augment natural weapon so they in question becomes one size category larger and there also can inflict additional damage.

So why do I ask in here and not in house rules you might ask, well I want to hear within the rules if this is bad execution of the rules (I have thought about including a flat out damage bonus based on caster level) or if this is something that you actually can do.

Also this spell will also appear in a d20 product, so I ask in here to be on the safe side on the execuation of this spell / rule.

Happy to hear your opinions mates.

 

[Crothian]

I think it sounds pretty good. Does the natural weapons actually increase in size? If they do you might want a neagtive to attack to show that the larger claws (or whatever they are) tougher to use.

 

[Liquide]

I think it sounds pretty good. Does the natural weapons actually increase in size? If they do you might want a neagtive to attack to show that the larger claws (or whatever they are) tougher to use.

Well they become larger and more crude so I would guess the answer to your question would be yes.

Hmm what kind of penalty did you have in mind and what type of Level of the spell are we talking (in your opinion)?

 

[Crothian]

I'd have it effect only one natural weapon at a time, be second level, the attack would be at -2, and the duration would be 10 minutes per level.

I'd want to playtest it first, but that's my initial guess.

 

[the Jester]

How about if the enlargement of the weapon gives a penalty on attack rolls equal to the size modifier that the creature would have if it was that many sizes larger? F'rex, if you enlarge a wolf's bite one step (now it does 1d8 base damage) the weapon also gets a -1 virtual size penalty to attack (as if a large creature)?

I like the idea!

 

[Artoomis]

Here is a starting point. I don't consider this House Rules, I consider it design of a new spell, which is core rules stuff.

I'd view this as a sort of specialized use on Enlarge.

Power Fist:
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes

When cast, this spell causes the unarmed attacks of the target to be one die category higher (as in a small monk getting damage like a medium monk).

 

[Liquide]

I'd have it effect only one natural weapon at a time, be second level, the attack would be at -2, and the duration would be 10 minutes per level.

I'd want to playtest it first, but that's my initial guess.

OK well now I can post my initial thoughts after seen yours
Observe, initial thoughts modified by your to hit rule.

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Physique Enlargment
Transmutation
Level: Drd3, Dgn3
Components: V, S, DF or F
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Living Creature Touched
Duration: 1 minute / level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

Physique Enlargement enlarges one natural weapon of the subject creature so it becomes larger and bulkier but makes it more effiecient and potent when it comes to dealing physical damage. When you're under the effect of the Physique Enlargement spell all your natural attacks counts as if they are one size category larger then normally are, and inflict extra damage. However since the natural weapon has become more bulky the subject creature suffers from a -2 penalty to attack rolls for the natural weapon affected under the duration of this spell. The extra damage you gain through this spell is considered an enlargment bonus. The spell can affect a slam attack, fist, bite or other natural weapon. (The spell does not chage an unarmed strike's damage from subdual damage to normal damage.)
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Well still needs some spellchecking done, but this is my idea of the spell in question (name not final either).

 

[Piratecat]

We're in to house rules territory at this point. I'll slide it over!

Cool idea, by the way.

 

[Destil]

Listing the dice scaling rules within the spell would make it far mor compact and usable. From the MM.
Original - Enlarged
1d2 - 1d3
1d3 - 1d4
1d4 - 1d6
1d6 - 1d8
1d8 - 2d6
1d10 - 2d6
1d12 - 2d8

This is extremly rather weak as far as power level for a 2nd level spell, let alone third. A rather small damage increase vs a -2 to hit. With such a limited duration, this praticaly screams cantrip, to me.

In general this isn't typicaly going to be very powerful. The d8-2d6 and d12-2d8 are about the best you can do.

Before that the mean damage only goes up 1 point, with the maximum increasing one or two points, and the minimum remaining the same.

1d8-2d6: +1 min, +2 mean, +4 max
1d10 - 2d6: +1 min, +1 mean, +2 max
1d12 - 2d8: +1 min, +2 mean, +4 max

All in all, I'd have no problems with this as a cantrip, myself. For a 3rd level spell, it needs to out do bull's strength and be compirable to greater magic fang. About the only thing this has going for it is that the to-hit penelity won't be a big factor for most creatures, since they lack itteritiave attacks, so it's slightly better than an equivelent power attack, somtimes... (though PA reaised the minimum damage far more often).

 

[Geoff Watson]

These spells seem rather weak. Why don't you cast Magic Fang or Greater Magic Fang instead?

Geoff.