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<blockquote data-quote="Edena_of_Neith" data-source="post: 374699" data-attributes="member: 2020">Yeah, I was too hard on Pippin.&nbsp; You are all quite correct on that point!&nbsp; And yes, the One Ring would have been greatly empowered by such dark behavior, and the Fellowship would have broken apart, first in spirit, then physically.&nbsp; Not to mention that you are quite right about the refusal of the Fellowship to do such a thing:&nbsp; Frodo would fight (with his sword) before allowing such behavior.&nbsp; So would Merry.&nbsp; Sam would gag at the idea of such treatment.&nbsp; Gandalf would tell the Company to go rot, before he would tolerate such behavior.&nbsp; Legolas and Gimli did not come off as being bad-hearted.&nbsp; Boromir ... probably would not have done such a thing (the book Boromir, the FILM Boromir would have gagged at the thought.)&nbsp; Aragorn, would not have allowed such a thing.&nbsp; However ...&nbsp; I do think the orcs of Moria had scouts in the western regions, listening for any noise.&nbsp; I think Pippin's stone gave the Fellowship away.&nbsp; That orc-ambush was too quick, too neatly set up.&nbsp; First, there is the horn-call in the Upper Hall, obviously blown by advanced scouts.&nbsp; The main ambush force is then heard, less than half a mile away.&nbsp; They are fully armed and armored, have one or more cave trolls with them, and were obviously fully pre-prepared for battle (and it takes time to don arms and armor, even for orcs.)&nbsp; The balrog is fully roused - it feels this is something important, or it wouldn't get involved - and comes from it's deep place to join in the attack about 15 minutes after the initial onslaught (it must have been a LONG ways away when the first horn call occurred.)&nbsp; And those Drummers in the Deep started up even before the Horn Call.&nbsp; The orcs somehow knew the Fellowship was there.&nbsp; The orcs knew precisely where they were - in the Chamber of Mazarbul.&nbsp; The orc scouts made a point of keeping quiet - so quiet that not even Legolas, and not even Frodo, heard them, although they were not that far off (once in the Hall.)&nbsp; I must assume the main orc host had been on the march for at least several hours, guided by their scouts, to reach the Fellowship's location - which means orc-scouts knew the location several hours ahead, and they were not heard by Legolas or Frodo.&nbsp; That level of attack, was too highly organized, too quick, and too massive, to be coincidental - something tipped off the orcs.&nbsp; I do not think it was Gollum.&nbsp; I think Pippin gave them away.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Edena_of_Neith, post: 374699, member: 2020"] Yeah, I was too hard on Pippin. You are all quite correct on that point! And yes, the One Ring would have been greatly empowered by such dark behavior, and the Fellowship would have broken apart, first in spirit, then physically. Not to mention that you are quite right about the refusal of the Fellowship to do such a thing: Frodo would fight (with his sword) before allowing such behavior. So would Merry. Sam would gag at the idea of such treatment. Gandalf would tell the Company to go rot, before he would tolerate such behavior. Legolas and Gimli did not come off as being bad-hearted. Boromir ... probably would not have done such a thing (the book Boromir, the FILM Boromir would have gagged at the thought.) Aragorn, would not have allowed such a thing. However ... I do think the orcs of Moria had scouts in the western regions, listening for any noise. I think Pippin's stone gave the Fellowship away. That orc-ambush was too quick, too neatly set up. First, there is the horn-call in the Upper Hall, obviously blown by advanced scouts. The main ambush force is then heard, less than half a mile away. They are fully armed and armored, have one or more cave trolls with them, and were obviously fully pre-prepared for battle (and it takes time to don arms and armor, even for orcs.) The balrog is fully roused - it feels this is something important, or it wouldn't get involved - and comes from it's deep place to join in the attack about 15 minutes after the initial onslaught (it must have been a LONG ways away when the first horn call occurred.) And those Drummers in the Deep started up even before the Horn Call. The orcs somehow knew the Fellowship was there. The orcs knew precisely where they were - in the Chamber of Mazarbul. The orc scouts made a point of keeping quiet - so quiet that not even Legolas, and not even Frodo, heard them, although they were not that far off (once in the Hall.) I must assume the main orc host had been on the march for at least several hours, guided by their scouts, to reach the Fellowship's location - which means orc-scouts knew the location several hours ahead, and they were not heard by Legolas or Frodo. That level of attack, was too highly organized, too quick, and too massive, to be coincidental - something tipped off the orcs. I do not think it was Gollum. I think Pippin gave them away. [/QUOTE]

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