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<blockquote data-quote="fafhrd" data-source="post: 2424453" data-attributes="member: 18517">If the issue you're concerned with is that they don't know when they're licked, you might use a very challenging opponent that can't be easily defeated but also has either no means or no reason to pursue them. If they simply rush in, they get beat up. Reasonably intelligent people will start to reassess their options when they start dropping into the negatives. In the Forge of Fury, the roper actually worked as advertised. Even though the strength damage made it a bit harder to escape, it served to underline how outclassed they were.If the issue is a teamwork problem, like the one DonTadow mentions, perhaps you could create an npc group that is a bit weaker than the pcs but have them save the pcs bacon through use of clever tactics. My pcs have gotten that hint in the past. It's nice to hear the players say something like, &quot;remember when we killed that dragon because we buffed beforehand? We should try something like that.&quot; The one issue with this approach is you want to layout the plausibility of rescue before the conflct. Otherwise it may backfire with the pcs expecting the GM to pull them out of the fire anytime they get in trouble.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="fafhrd, post: 2424453, member: 18517"] If the issue you're concerned with is that they don't know when they're licked, you might use a very challenging opponent that can't be easily defeated but also has either no means or no reason to pursue them. If they simply rush in, they get beat up. Reasonably intelligent people will start to reassess their options when they start dropping into the negatives. In the Forge of Fury, the roper actually worked as advertised. Even though the strength damage made it a bit harder to escape, it served to underline how outclassed they were. If the issue is a teamwork problem, like the one DonTadow mentions, perhaps you could create an npc group that is a bit weaker than the pcs but have them save the pcs bacon through use of clever tactics. My pcs have gotten that hint in the past. It's nice to hear the players say something like, "remember when we killed that dragon because we buffed beforehand? We should try something like that." The one issue with this approach is you want to layout the plausibility of rescue before the conflct. Otherwise it may backfire with the pcs expecting the GM to pull them out of the fire anytime they get in trouble. [/QUOTE]

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