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<blockquote data-quote="Prestidigitalis" data-source="post: 5363137" data-attributes="member: 74496">Saeviomagy and others:I think the reason for the difference in our assessments comes down to one thing: my choices are based on the idea of a Thief who can operate equally well in melee or at range, without much dependence on party members, and even if there isn't a whole lot of helpful terrain to make peek-a-boo sniping easy.So, for example, if a defender simply closes to melee range, the Thief can use Tactical Trick at range, or in melee but without having to get around opposite the defender.&nbsp; This can be important if the defender simply moves to the closest square instead of trying to edge around behind.Saeviomagy said: &quot;Your prime stat is dex. Your defense competes with that of most defenders, and if you want you can push it higher.&quot;I guess you could say &quot;competes&quot; if you mean &quot;is within 1 or 2 points, mostly&quot;.&nbsp; Unless you push Dex to 20, you are 1 point behind an AC 17 scale-wearing two-weapon fighter, 2 points behind a typical Swordmage, and 3 points behind an AC 20 plate+shield Paladin or Knight.&nbsp; In fact, the only characters with a worse AC are Wizards or Sorcerers who don't take an AC feat (leather or Unarmored Agility) and those hapless Con-based Shamans that everyone keeps expecting to be updated.But the bigger problem with being a flanking-based Rogue is that you are easily flanked yourself, and because you are inflicting high damage smack in the middle of the pileup, you are quite likely to get ganged up on unless you have more than one defender covering your back. Anyway...&nbsp; One of the most interesting changes to Rogue's quest for CA appears in the Essentials chapter on Knights.&nbsp; What Rogue (of any stripe) would not want to be paired with a Knight using the Defend the Line stance?&nbsp; A single feat (Vicious Advantage, upgraded to Expert Sneak at paragon) and you can have CA just about at will, and at range.&nbsp; So oddly enough, at the same time WotC introduced a Rogue that can operate almost completely independently, they added an option that makes a Rogue that depends entirely on teamwork (the Brutal Scoundrel) even more powerful.&nbsp; At least, if the Knight can be convinced to use Defend the Line exclusively or nearly so.Thanks for the input, everyone.&nbsp; Obviously I'm not up to writing a real guide for CharOp yet.&nbsp; This was more just my thoughts on the topic.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Prestidigitalis, post: 5363137, member: 74496"] Saeviomagy and others: I think the reason for the difference in our assessments comes down to one thing: my choices are based on the idea of a Thief who can operate equally well in melee or at range, without much dependence on party members, and even if there isn't a whole lot of helpful terrain to make peek-a-boo sniping easy. So, for example, if a defender simply closes to melee range, the Thief can use Tactical Trick at range, or in melee but without having to get around opposite the defender. This can be important if the defender simply moves to the closest square instead of trying to edge around behind. Saeviomagy said: "Your prime stat is dex. Your defense competes with that of most defenders, and if you want you can push it higher." I guess you could say "competes" if you mean "is within 1 or 2 points, mostly". Unless you push Dex to 20, you are 1 point behind an AC 17 scale-wearing two-weapon fighter, 2 points behind a typical Swordmage, and 3 points behind an AC 20 plate+shield Paladin or Knight. In fact, the only characters with a worse AC are Wizards or Sorcerers who don't take an AC feat (leather or Unarmored Agility) and those hapless Con-based Shamans that everyone keeps expecting to be updated. But the bigger problem with being a flanking-based Rogue is that you are easily flanked yourself, and because you are inflicting high damage smack in the middle of the pileup, you are quite likely to get ganged up on unless you have more than one defender covering your back. Anyway... One of the most interesting changes to Rogue's quest for CA appears in the Essentials chapter on Knights. What Rogue (of any stripe) would not want to be paired with a Knight using the Defend the Line stance? A single feat (Vicious Advantage, upgraded to Expert Sneak at paragon) and you can have CA just about at will, and at range. So oddly enough, at the same time WotC introduced a Rogue that can operate almost completely independently, they added an option that makes a Rogue that depends entirely on teamwork (the Brutal Scoundrel) even more powerful. At least, if the Knight can be convinced to use Defend the Line exclusively or nearly so. Thanks for the input, everyone. Obviously I'm not up to writing a real guide for CharOp yet. This was more just my thoughts on the topic. [/QUOTE]

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