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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Herremann the Wise" data-source="post: 5948269" data-attributes="member: 11300">Thank you everyone for the ideas presented to test this concept; to see if it sinks or swims. Look below as to why I still think it might be swimming.Whenever we had most effective feat polls/threads, Improved Initiative always won and so that one time in an encounter where initiative is important is obviously seen as a big thing. As an additional thing to put into the Fighter's stuff (not replacing anything), this is all win isn't it?Just a quick thing on the mathematics of advantage: Advantage gives you a better result just over 64% of the time and if you look at the average benefit over a regular roll, I believe it is +3.325. And I suppose this is my point (and the reason why I like the general concept of advantage) is that the range of results does not change, but the frequency of that range of results gets neatly fiddled with. It says not that this guy is quicker, (a representation of the maximum initiative of a character), but that he is consistently better than someone with equivalent initiative capacity.Again looking at the numbers, the fighter goes before another combatant more often than not, even if their initiative is 1, 2 or 3 "points" better. It is only if their initiative is 4 or more points better than the fighters that the situation goes the other way. However, there is nothing stopping a fighter having a good dexterity (and therefore initiative)  and there is every reason to offer bonuses to initiative through an improved initiative feat available to all (and if you wanted to make it a "thing" for the fighter, you could have further class abilities that built further on initiative).I suppose my point here is that a fighter should be good at fighting, and being able to act effectively (through higher initiative) should be part of the fighter's grab bag of stuff, without relying on options not available in the core of the rules. However, it also means that when you do focus on options, ones that rely on the fighter acting sooner are more effective (particularly thinking of battlefield control here and moving into the best position to make those options more effective).I don't think it is class defining but it's a nod to fighter characters that when it comes to combat, they don't get caught short as often as other combatants.Individual initiative is part of the present core but easily substituted for the "option" you suggest. Would it be too much of a stretch to say that as long as the fighter is not surprised and within range of the rest of the group, the PC's group initiative roll gets advantage? The fighter keeps everyone sharp and on their toes,and alerts the group through his quick action and communication? Just a thought how you could easily interpret this for the option of group initiative.Anti-surprise would seem to work around not getting that clunky -20 penalty to initiative for being surprised (and thus barbarians, rogues etc. with the old "uncanny dodge" ability never cop this -20 penalty perhaps?). This would seem to be mechanically separate from both an effect that increases the maximum possible initiative (improved initiative) and one that mucks around with the frequency of results within a set range (the initiative advantage suggested).Best RegardsHerremann the Wise</blockquote>

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