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A simple fix to balance fighters vs. casters ?
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<blockquote data-quote="Arrowhawk" data-source="post: 5652047" data-attributes="member: 6679551"><p>You'll need to show me that in Raw. I did find this on page 6 of the DMG:</p><p> </p><p style="text-align: left"></p><p><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px">Choose the rule that you like the best, then stick with it for the</p></span></span></span></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></p><p></span></span><p style="margin-left: 20px"><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'">rest of the campaign. Consistency is a critical aspect of rules</span></span></p></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'">adjudication.</span></span></p></span></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></p></span></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'">That suggests that choosing the "rule" the DM like best allows the DM to disallow splat books or even spells as the DM sees fit. Splat books are "supplemental" to core books. </span></span></span></span></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>A "house rule" is a deviation from the official rules. Making decisions about what <em>is available in your campaign</em> is required by the official rules. It is not a deviation from the rules. There is no official rule that says everything that exists in any book is always available to any player. In fact the rules state and encourage the opposite to achieve balance.</p><p> </p><p>There is a categorical difference between saying a spell doesn't exist versus deciding the player doesn't have access to a certain spell due to the campaign setting. </p><p> </p><p> yeah, I don't think RAW needs to spell out that if you're researching rubber duckies, you're not going to invent an airplane. Or that you can't research an airplane if no one in your campaign knows what it is or has ever seen one in action. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Except that the PHB specifically says the Wizard's dable in "minor magic." I don't think Greater Teleportation constitutes "minor magic"</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>What exactly is a Non-Raw campaign setting? Here's what DMG says on Page 6</p><p> </p><p style="text-align: left"></p><p><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px">Every Dungeon Master is the <strong>creator of his or her own campaign</strong></p></span></span></span></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></p><p></span></span><p style="margin-left: 20px"></p></span></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'">world. Whether you use the G</span></span></p></span></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></p></span></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></p><p></span></span><p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 9px">REYHAWK</span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px">® setting (the standard</span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'">D&D campaign setting) or another published setting for the D&D</span></span></p></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'">game, such as the </span></span></p></p> <p style="text-align: left"></span></span></p></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span><p style="text-align: left"><em><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-MediumItalic'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-MediumItalic'"><span style="font-size: 10px">F</span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-MediumItalic'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-MediumItalic'"><span style="font-size: 9px">ORGOTTEN </span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-MediumItalic'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-MediumItalic'"><span style="font-size: 10px">R</span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-MediumItalic'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-MediumItalic'"><span style="font-size: 9px">EALMS</span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-MediumItalic'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-MediumItalic'"><span style="font-size: 10px">® Campaign Setting</span></span></span></span></em><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px">, it’s still</span></span></span></span><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'">your world.</span></span></p></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'">The setting is more than just a backdrop for adventures, although</span></span></p></span></span></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'">it’s that too. The setting is <strong>everything </strong>in the fictional world</span></span></p></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'">except for the PCs and the adventure plot</span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'CelestiaAntiqua-Medium'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> </p><p>Emphasis added.</p><p> </p><p>Even if you interpret that to mean you <em>have to</em> use a published campaign setting, none of the ones I've read tell you what spells are and are not available.</p><p> </p><p>I did find this little tidbit in the PHB p 179.</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><strong>With the DM’s permission</strong>, sorcerers and bards can also select the spells they</span><span style="font-size: 10px">gain from new and unusual spells that they have gained some </span><span style="font-size: 10px">understanding of (see Spells in the sorcerer description, page 54).</span></span></span></span></span></p></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p>Emphasis Added.</p><p> </p><p>Even if we concede the Sorc/Bard gets any spell in the PHB, this rule explicitly seems to give the DM discretion over any other source for spells.</p><p> </p><p> Offense? No. But the label is incorrect and seems to be thrown around to undermine the fact that the balance issue ...really isn't there in terms of how the game is supposed to be run. If people say there is a way to deal with X problem and the response is "oh that's house ruling," that's tantamount to saying, no, you haven't solved the problem.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>It is a core principal in D&D that the DM's take actions to balance the game. If DM's shirk that responsibility, it is invalid to say things are unbalanced while ignoring the most crucial instrument designed to enforce balance.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Arrowhawk, post: 5652047, member: 6679551"] You'll need to show me that in Raw. I did find this on page 6 of the DMG: [LEFT][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium][SIZE=2][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium][SIZE=2][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium][SIZE=2][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium][SIZE=2] [INDENT]Choose the rule that you like the best, then stick with it for the [/INDENT][/SIZE][/FONT] [INDENT][LEFT][SIZE=2][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium]rest of the campaign. Consistency is a critical aspect of rules[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT] [SIZE=2][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium]adjudication.[/FONT][/SIZE] [/INDENT][SIZE=2][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium]That suggests that choosing the "rule" the DM like best allows the DM to disallow splat books or even spells as the DM sees fit. Splat books are "supplemental" to core books. [/FONT][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT] A "house rule" is a deviation from the official rules. Making decisions about what [I]is available in your campaign[/I] is required by the official rules. It is not a deviation from the rules. There is no official rule that says everything that exists in any book is always available to any player. In fact the rules state and encourage the opposite to achieve balance. There is a categorical difference between saying a spell doesn't exist versus deciding the player doesn't have access to a certain spell due to the campaign setting. yeah, I don't think RAW needs to spell out that if you're researching rubber duckies, you're not going to invent an airplane. Or that you can't research an airplane if no one in your campaign knows what it is or has ever seen one in action. Except that the PHB specifically says the Wizard's dable in "minor magic." I don't think Greater Teleportation constitutes "minor magic" What exactly is a Non-Raw campaign setting? Here's what DMG says on Page 6 [LEFT][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium][SIZE=2][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium][SIZE=2][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium][SIZE=2][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium][SIZE=2] [INDENT]Every Dungeon Master is the [B]creator of his or her own campaign[/B] [/INDENT][/SIZE][/FONT] [INDENT] [SIZE=2][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium]world. Whether you use the G[/FONT][/SIZE] [/INDENT][/SIZE][/FONT] [INDENT] [LEFT][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium][SIZE=1][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium][SIZE=1]REYHAWK[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium][SIZE=2][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium][SIZE=2]® setting (the standard[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium][SIZE=2] [LEFT][SIZE=2][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium]D&D campaign setting) or another published setting for the D&D[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium]game, such as the [/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT] [/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium][SIZE=2] [/SIZE][/FONT][LEFT][I][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-MediumItalic][SIZE=2][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-MediumItalic][SIZE=2]F[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-MediumItalic][SIZE=1][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-MediumItalic][SIZE=1]ORGOTTEN [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-MediumItalic][SIZE=2][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-MediumItalic][SIZE=2]R[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-MediumItalic][SIZE=1][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-MediumItalic][SIZE=1]EALMS[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-MediumItalic][SIZE=2][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-MediumItalic][SIZE=2]® Campaign Setting[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/I][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium][SIZE=2][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium][SIZE=2], it’s still[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium][SIZE=2] [LEFT][SIZE=2][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium]your world.[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium]The setting is more than just a backdrop for adventures, although[/FONT][/SIZE] [SIZE=2][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium]it’s that too. The setting is [B]everything [/B]in the fictional world[/FONT][/SIZE][/LEFT] [SIZE=2][FONT=CelestiaAntiqua-Medium]except for the PCs and the adventure plot[/FONT][/SIZE] [/SIZE][/FONT] [/LEFT] [/INDENT]Emphasis added. Even if you interpret that to mean you [I]have to[/I] use a published campaign setting, none of the ones I've read tell you what spells are and are not available. I did find this little tidbit in the PHB p 179. [INDENT] [LEFT][FONT=00CelestiaAntiqua][SIZE=1][FONT=00CelestiaAntiqua][SIZE=1][SIZE=2][B]With the DM’s permission[/B], sorcerers and bards can also select the spells they[/SIZE][SIZE=2]gain from new and unusual spells that they have gained some [/SIZE][SIZE=2]understanding of (see Spells in the sorcerer description, page 54).[/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=1][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT][FONT=00CelestiaAntiqua][SIZE=1][SIZE=1] [/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT] [/INDENT]Emphasis Added. Even if we concede the Sorc/Bard gets any spell in the PHB, this rule explicitly seems to give the DM discretion over any other source for spells. Offense? No. But the label is incorrect and seems to be thrown around to undermine the fact that the balance issue ...really isn't there in terms of how the game is supposed to be run. If people say there is a way to deal with X problem and the response is "oh that's house ruling," that's tantamount to saying, no, you haven't solved the problem. It is a core principal in D&D that the DM's take actions to balance the game. If DM's shirk that responsibility, it is invalid to say things are unbalanced while ignoring the most crucial instrument designed to enforce balance. [/QUOTE]
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