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Message: <blockquote data-quote="dave2008" data-source="post: 8598670" data-attributes="member: 83242">It does depend on what you are comparing though.  If you look at combat damage the fighter comes out well most of the time.  However, for shear utility the magic users are far and away superior (as long as they don't run out of slots of course).I have suggested a few "nerfs" in this thread that I think overcome most of these issues.  Then again, I haven't done a deep dive and this are a bit off the cuff.It is not just designers, as this thread shows.  Some people are adamant that their martials can only do mundane things.  I think that is a completely legitimate way to play. The difficult is making one ruleset to accommodate both ideas.Sure, but not everyone sees it that way. Heck, you could easily make a version of the Eldritch Knight that could take misty step to gain a teleport. You could even re-fluff as a martial action if you want (lots of martial-arts theme fiction has abilities like this)But there will always be a segment that will only accept these as magical abilities and that is OK.I think there is a way to achieve both with the same ruleset, but you probably have to accept that your really playing to different games that happen to share the same (or at least some of the same) rules.I don't really think it takes that much to change it, depending on what your goal is.  The issue is that different people have different goals.  I mean I can fairly easily make 5e a low  or no magic game.  I can even keep all of a casters spells and spell levels while doing it and making it a bit more balanced with martials.  With a little more work I can give fighters most of, if not all, of the versatility of wizards.Ideally, 5e would provide different module to do these things, which it could, rather than leave it up to us DMs.  Then again, I sure I would prefer what I come up with versus what WotC would come up with.</blockquote>

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