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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Akrasia" data-source="post: 1949503" data-attributes="member: 23012">Yes, that would be a complete system.  Just not a very interesting one.   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> My argument concerning completeness was simply to counter the common but spurious claim that somehow rules lite systems require 'ad hoc' decisions by the GM.Again, there are trade-offs to be made here, depending on your tastes.  I have found that it is possible to make "unique and interesting characters" with rules lite systems like C&C and Unisystem.  Then again, I tend to define my characters more through role-playing than through skills and feats (though even rules lite systems have rules-based ways to make characters different -- e.g. C&C's system of 'primes', and Unisystem's 'qualities').  Of course, if you want lots and lots of 'rules-enforced' detail for your character, you can use HERO or GURPS.  But then the system has so many rules, IME, that it ends up being too slow for the kinds of games that I enjoy.  (3E D&D is not as bad -- IMO -- but slow enough from my perspective as a DM that I prefer to run other games now.  I'm still happy to play it, though.)  I disagree completely with your claim that non-3e systems necessarily have "very poor mechanical representation<s> of the game world".  </s><s></s><s>For example, you do not need the rules-heavy, miniatures-based tactical combat system of 3e D&D in order to have satisfactory combat rules.  I have found the Unisystem combat system to be every bit as satisfactory -- for my purposes -- as the 3e system.  And much faster to boot.</s><s></s><s></s><s></s><s>The nice thing about rules lite systems is that they are much easier to tinker with -- i.e. 'improve' -- than rules heavy systems.   The reason for this is simple: it is much easier to modify a simple model than a more complex one, because it is easier to control for fewer variables than many variables.</s><s></s><s>This is what I like about rules lite systems -- I can tweak the rules and add things to the game without necessarily 'breaking' it.  </s><s></s><s>Again, rules lite systems are not for everyone.  But to suggest that they are necessarily unsatisfactory in terms of mechanics, or are incapable of producing satisfactory characters, is simply incorrect.</s> <s><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /></s></blockquote>

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