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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 1607213" data-attributes="member: 957">I would say it is more a matter of the rules putting pressure on the players than the players doing anything.  Players can do whatever they want.Not exactly.  That is not a problem.  But I am just pointing out that this price can be just as bad as the price of using WIS.But, as you already pointed out, my method will turn STR into a dump stat, thus also achieving this same goal.This is the EXACT reasoning given to me for why GURPS was better than D&D when I first encountered GURPS 16 years ago.  Not terribly relevent to the matter at hand, just struck me as very funny how far we can go and end up where we started.Well, the occasional archetype of magi going nuts from using to much magic is fine with me.  And I think that perhaps being down to Heavy Encumbrance at 7 pounds (STR 1) would be a greater drawback in my mind than you seem to see it.I don't see that.  A WIS 1 Arcane mage is fully compentent mage who happend to be temporarily insane.  Yeah, they have lost a good deal of will save and that is a harsh price.  But they can still run away.  Which is a good idea being as they are out of mana.  At STR 1 they are out of mana AND in serious danger on being unable to do anything at all.I don't see how getting your max carry knocked down to 10 lbs is less of a penalty than getting a -3 to your Will Save.A WIS 10 Divine Caster will still have a better WILL save than most strong characters.  If that is going to incapacitate them, then the party toughs are going to be in deep trouble when their tourn to make a WILL save comes around.  An 8th level dedicated with 17 WIS = +7 Will save, would go down to +4; 8th level strong with 10 WIS is only +2.  You WIS 17 STR 12 STR-burn divine caster has 5 more points to work with than my WIS 17 WIS-burn caster.   They each have 3 points of mana burn resistance.  Using d6 burn they each burn 1.17 points per spell level.You can cast 10 spell levels before your are lying unconcious.  I can only cast 6, but I am still in complete control of my faculties and body when I am done.  That seems in the ballpark of a fair trade-off.  Which is all I am seeking.  I'm not trying to "fix" your system.  I'm trying to get an equivalent mod that gets away from Buff mages.    After all, Buffy is the slayer, not the witch.  Sure, but that argument pre-supposes one magic system over another.  If the character can choose between the two systems it may be more heroic in the paladin code of lawful stupid way to sacrifice yourself to the cause.  But the other party members might actually prefer that you shoot your spells off and then actually continue to help achieve the goal.Fair point.Disagree.  Using STR not only encourages padding STR, in pretty well requires it.  I really doubt that a caster using STR would put and 8 in STR.  Allowing a dump stat is less bad than forcing multiple ability dependency.Using WIS actually frees up the player to put their stats where they want.  That is not correct.  They can not cast more spells.  Once their WIS drops below 10 they can not cast any more spells.  So they do not gain any more power.  If anything they have less.  A STR12 WIS17 divine mage would have 12 points your way and 7 mine.  So you balance concern is not there.I also think this is another benefit.  It adds further separation between the arcane and divine casters.  Arcane casters are more volatile.  They can blast more, but at the risk of doing more damage to themselves.  Divine casters sell off some power for insurance against self destruction.Obviously I have not been able to play GT much yet.  But I did play GURPS for many years, and I see the same road markers here on this one issue.That is a good point.Glad you are finding it worht the time.</blockquote>

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