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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wulf Ratbane" data-source="post: 1607326" data-attributes="member: 94">So you would rather require padding WIS? Which is already a no-brainer choice for spellcasters (divine or not)?Do you doubt that in the WIS-burn model a spellcaster will always choose to put an 8 in STR? Or that he will always choose to put one of his top 2 stats in WIS?You doubt because you don't know. You don't know because it's not guaranteed what they will want to do with their stats. It's not guaranteed because they have multiple stat dependency. It's hard giving over your 2nd highest stat to STR when you'd like to have the hit points (CON) or DEX (armor class) or WIS (will save) instead.Well, just to say it again, using the elite array doesn't allow for "padding" as the stats simply aren't there to do it. A 14, 13, or 12 is very nearly statistically transparent and hardly constitutes "padding." The elite array becomes difficult when assigning the 8 and the 10. If those choices are easy (STR and CHA, here we come!) then there is very little to distinguish the multitude of min/maxxed spellcasters you fear: Their remaining stats are 15, 14, 13, and 12, and with great regularity you can predict where the top stat will be (primary spellcasting attribute), where the next stat will be (WIS), leaving really only a 13 and a 12, statistically indistinguishable, to the task of distinguishing characters.And "forcing multiple ability dependency" is, as stated in Chapter One, a design directive.I fail to see how forcing the player to choose WIS over STR generates any real "freedom" of choice."Putting the stats where you want" should not mean "min/maxing" which is far more likely when you offer a dump stat.I think it just makes it more likely you'll have an 8 STR and WIS as your highest (divine) or second highest (arcane) stat.I maintain that it's not a given that the second highest stat will go into STR in the STR-burn model, because other than "mana," STR serves little purpose to the typical spellcaster. You can more easily sacrifice a couple of points of STR during character creation, and if you DO pad it out, you still have to deal with that 8.And here we have a philosophical difference. I consider multiple stat dependency a strength of any character creation system. It encourages choice-- hard choices-- rather than no-brainer stat assignment.You may think that putting your second highest stat into STR (forcing "padding") is a no-brainer, but I assure you it is not nearly the slam-dunk no-brainer than offering them an 8 STR will be. It is very, very hard to assign the elite array, the moreso as all stats approach equal importance.Run your system past a handful of players, ask them to build a Smart hero spellcaster, to see how long it takes them to assign the stats and how homogenous they come back. Then do the same with the STR-burn model and you'll see that not only will they make harder choices and take longer to do it, you'll see a greater variety of stat assignments.Wulf</blockquote>

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