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<blockquote data-quote="JohnSnow" data-source="post: 3522596" data-attributes="member: 32164">There's also the fact that many modern humans have a physical strength score due to inactivity considerably lower than 10 or 11. Don't believe me?d20 system rules say that a character can lift his maximum load OVER his head. How much weight can you lift over your head? Not bench press - lift over your head. 150 lbs. - STR 13130 lbs. - STR 12115 lbs. - STR 11100 lbs. - STR 1090 lbs. - STR 980 lbs. - STR 870 lbs. - STR 760 lbs. - STR 6Less? More? If it's less than 100 lbs., you're probably taking a STR penalty to hit, which is why that weapon feels heavy... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> I would submit that part of the process of &quot;learning to fence&quot; is in acquiring the feat &quot;weapon finesse.&quot; Most people tend to think of fighting with a weapon as swinging it in large, wide arcs. Learning economy of movement and repositioning is a very different kind of fighting. In my experience, it can be done with some weapons, but not others.Caveat. I am not a &quot;fencer&quot; in the sport fencing sense. Since late 2002, I've been semi-regularly training in historical stage combat - ancient &quot;fencing.&quot; We train with rapiers, sideswords, backswords, longswords (what d20 calls a &quot;bastard sword&quot;) and so on. As one of my friends puts it, rapier combat is about getting your opponent to walk into the point of your sword. You do not automatically use a rapier this way. It takes training.Most people don't use longswords as finesse weapons, but it IS possible. Yes, they take a LOT of training. By contrast, a standard medieval arming sword (what d20 erroneously calls &quot;a longsword&quot;) doesn't really lend itself well to finesse fighting. At all.Training in swordplay certainly gives one a different perspective on fantasy gaming, I must say.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="JohnSnow, post: 3522596, member: 32164"] There's also the fact that many modern humans have a physical strength score due to inactivity considerably lower than 10 or 11. Don't believe me? d20 system rules say that a character can lift his maximum load OVER his head. How much weight can you lift over your head? Not bench press - lift over your head. 150 lbs. - STR 13 130 lbs. - STR 12 115 lbs. - STR 11 100 lbs. - STR 10 90 lbs. - STR 9 80 lbs. - STR 8 70 lbs. - STR 7 60 lbs. - STR 6 Less? More? If it's less than 100 lbs., you're probably taking a STR penalty to hit, which is why that weapon feels heavy... ;) I would submit that part of the process of "learning to fence" is in acquiring the feat "weapon finesse." Most people tend to think of fighting with a weapon as swinging it in large, wide arcs. Learning economy of movement and repositioning is a very different kind of fighting. In my experience, it can be done with some weapons, but not others. Caveat. I am not a "fencer" in the sport fencing sense. Since late 2002, I've been semi-regularly training in historical stage combat - ancient "fencing." We train with rapiers, sideswords, backswords, longswords (what d20 calls a "bastard sword") and so on. As one of my friends puts it, rapier combat is about getting your opponent to walk into the point of your sword. You do not automatically use a rapier this way. It takes training. Most people don't use longswords as finesse weapons, but it IS possible. Yes, they take a LOT of training. By contrast, a standard medieval arming sword (what d20 erroneously calls "a longsword") doesn't really lend itself well to finesse fighting. At all. Training in swordplay certainly gives one a different perspective on fantasy gaming, I must say. [/QUOTE]

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