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<blockquote data-quote="Victim" data-source="post: 2894744" data-attributes="member: 78">That's all pertinent.&nbsp; In a 1v1 fight.&nbsp; Parties squaring off to 1v1 individual foes is pretty much the weakest tactic in the game.&nbsp; Do you want the party to win, or the monk to live?&nbsp; Shifting damage to more vulnerable teammates helps the former how?&nbsp; Being the last person in the group to die isn't a worthwhile endeavor in and of itself.&nbsp; A nigh invicible cleric is good, since he can use the time he stays up to help allies, in addition to dealing damage.&nbsp; Monks?&nbsp; Not so much.Assuming that a fight lasts until the monk outlasts his enemies is a bad assumption.&nbsp; In most cases, one side or another is going to force a resolution to a fight within say 6 rounds.&nbsp; If the party is winning, then they'll be able to deal with the monk's share of enemies within that time.&nbsp; If the rest of the party loses, then the monk probably can't deal with all remaining enemies, and even if he does, the rest of the group has still lost.&nbsp; A character's contributions for the duration of a battle are critical.&nbsp; Hypothetical contributions after that time has elapsed become progressively less valuable.&nbsp; With the assumption that a character has a finite number of actions in a fight to spend, then effect per action is critical.&nbsp; Basically, action are perhaps the most important resource in the game (witness the change to Haste, and the power of Time Stop).&nbsp; A dex monk's individual actions tend to be less effective.It's good that people have mentioned grappling and trips.&nbsp; Both of those mechanics tend to favor monks, except possibly at high levels.&nbsp; Guess what?&nbsp; Both Grapple and Trip use STR to determine their offensive effect.&nbsp; My monk can grapple and trip effectively BECAUSE he is STR based, not Dex based.&nbsp; Admitedly, STR has more of an effect with Trip since it's a more pure ability check.&nbsp; Even a Dex monk will probably have little trouble grappling low STR wizards and rogues with the Imp Grapple edge.Also, the various penalties associated with grapple and trip are more significant to a Dex based monk.&nbsp; Losing one's Dex bonus in a grapple isn't as much of a problem if you only have a 13 or 14 for Imp Grapple anyway - but if you rely on the high AC from big, then forfeiting all that defense is a big deal.&nbsp; And in most cases, the AC penalty from being prone (from an unlucky trip and counter trip) will take off a bigger share of the Dex monk's defense.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Victim, post: 2894744, member: 78"] That's all pertinent. In a 1v1 fight. Parties squaring off to 1v1 individual foes is pretty much the weakest tactic in the game. Do you want the party to win, or the monk to live? Shifting damage to more vulnerable teammates helps the former how? Being the last person in the group to die isn't a worthwhile endeavor in and of itself. A nigh invicible cleric is good, since he can use the time he stays up to help allies, in addition to dealing damage. Monks? Not so much. Assuming that a fight lasts until the monk outlasts his enemies is a bad assumption. In most cases, one side or another is going to force a resolution to a fight within say 6 rounds. If the party is winning, then they'll be able to deal with the monk's share of enemies within that time. If the rest of the party loses, then the monk probably can't deal with all remaining enemies, and even if he does, the rest of the group has still lost. A character's contributions for the duration of a battle are critical. Hypothetical contributions after that time has elapsed become progressively less valuable. With the assumption that a character has a finite number of actions in a fight to spend, then effect per action is critical. Basically, action are perhaps the most important resource in the game (witness the change to Haste, and the power of Time Stop). A dex monk's individual actions tend to be less effective. It's good that people have mentioned grappling and trips. Both of those mechanics tend to favor monks, except possibly at high levels. Guess what? Both Grapple and Trip use STR to determine their offensive effect. My monk can grapple and trip effectively BECAUSE he is STR based, not Dex based. Admitedly, STR has more of an effect with Trip since it's a more pure ability check. Even a Dex monk will probably have little trouble grappling low STR wizards and rogues with the Imp Grapple edge. Also, the various penalties associated with grapple and trip are more significant to a Dex based monk. Losing one's Dex bonus in a grapple isn't as much of a problem if you only have a 13 or 14 for Imp Grapple anyway - but if you rely on the high AC from big, then forfeiting all that defense is a big deal. And in most cases, the AC penalty from being prone (from an unlucky trip and counter trip) will take off a bigger share of the Dex monk's defense. [/QUOTE]

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