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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
A talk on the concept of "failures" in a skill challenge (no math, comments welcome)
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<blockquote data-quote="shadowguidex" data-source="post: 4303648" data-attributes="member: 60880"><p>I am really enjoying skill challenges; my players seem to really get into them, and they are coming up with some amazing uses for their skill checks - my groups fighter seems to find just the perfect use for his three skills (Streetwise, Athletics, Endurance), which is quite extraordinary what he can do with such a limited list - particularly when one tends to look at the list itself; moreover, I tend to award clever use of skills with the +2 bonus suggested in the DMG, so my players who use creativity even for skills that aren't necessarily optimal, will at the very least gain a +2 bonus.</p><p></p><p>Beyond my players creativity in their use of skills, and my rather generous use of the +2 bonuses, I am designing my skill challenges to allow my players to use a wide variety of skills. I really brainstorm my interaction with their skill uses, and I often give out subtle hints that can bring unexpected skills into play (lost in the forest, the heroes try to get their bearings - the wizard seems lost with no applicable skills - the ranger uses nature and finds tracks - I suggest that the tracks might be mundane animals tracks, or they could follow mystical ley lines, further investigation might be needed). The wizard took the cue, and used his Arcanna to orient himself with the mystic ley energies of the forest.</p><p></p><p>I think that skill challenges are really a test of the creativity of your groups. If your group has the ability to use their 3-6 skills in very unique ways and you're able to take all of their creativity and build upon it for focused use of those skills as they relate to the challenge, you'll find that the skill challenge system is highly rewarding and very very fun.</p><p></p><p>We have done several so far, my favorites were the "chase through the streets", where my group continually tried to use wolf pack tactics to corner the chasee, and she eluded them until the final Athletics check to tackle her, and the "putting the ghost to rest" challenge where my heroes had to decipher the babbling of a mad greedy miser ghost, and eventually laid him to rest by placing a bag of gems inside his coffin after a final Athletics check to dig up his coffin and break it open.</p><p></p><p>The list of skills used in those for successes was impressive:</p><p></p><p>Chase (8 successes / 4 failures) - group had 3 failures, so it was a close one.</p><p>-----------------------------------------------------------------</p><p>Athletics x2 - Early attempt to catch her / final tackle.</p><p>Acrobatics - Rogue jumped from a wagon and onto a roof.</p><p>History - Wizard wanted to know where the busiest marketplace was located.</p><p>Streetwise - Warrior wanted to know what directions the crowd would be moving on different streets to force her to make bad decisions.</p><p>Stealth - Rogue hid behind a corner and tried to nab target as she rounded it.</p><p>Diplomacy - Cleric asked the crowd to slow the target down.</p><p>Intimidate - Warlock taunted and mocked the target, causing target to look back over her shoulder and stumble.</p><p></p><p>Ghost (6 successes / 6* failures) - I think the group got up to 2 failures, and I had designed it to be really difficult, so I had the failure rate set for 6 failures which they crushed.</p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------</p><p>Thievery - Rogue opens the ghosts vault (empty), causing him to speak more coherently.</p><p>Heal - Cleric determines the cause of death, based on appearance of ghost, was likely old murder.</p><p>Religion - Warlock knows that ghosts sometimes linger on until things, in their minds, have been set right.</p><p>History - Wizard knows that the inhabitants of the mansion were murdered by thieves who plundered many riches.</p><p>Insight - Rogue understands that the miser ghost is acting greedy, and desires something, he unveils the bag of gems that he found in the chest and the ghost tries to grab at them. </p><p>Athletics - The fighter digs up the coffin, opens it, and places the bag of gems inside, and the miser ghost evaporates into the winds.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="shadowguidex, post: 4303648, member: 60880"] I am really enjoying skill challenges; my players seem to really get into them, and they are coming up with some amazing uses for their skill checks - my groups fighter seems to find just the perfect use for his three skills (Streetwise, Athletics, Endurance), which is quite extraordinary what he can do with such a limited list - particularly when one tends to look at the list itself; moreover, I tend to award clever use of skills with the +2 bonus suggested in the DMG, so my players who use creativity even for skills that aren't necessarily optimal, will at the very least gain a +2 bonus. Beyond my players creativity in their use of skills, and my rather generous use of the +2 bonuses, I am designing my skill challenges to allow my players to use a wide variety of skills. I really brainstorm my interaction with their skill uses, and I often give out subtle hints that can bring unexpected skills into play (lost in the forest, the heroes try to get their bearings - the wizard seems lost with no applicable skills - the ranger uses nature and finds tracks - I suggest that the tracks might be mundane animals tracks, or they could follow mystical ley lines, further investigation might be needed). The wizard took the cue, and used his Arcanna to orient himself with the mystic ley energies of the forest. I think that skill challenges are really a test of the creativity of your groups. If your group has the ability to use their 3-6 skills in very unique ways and you're able to take all of their creativity and build upon it for focused use of those skills as they relate to the challenge, you'll find that the skill challenge system is highly rewarding and very very fun. We have done several so far, my favorites were the "chase through the streets", where my group continually tried to use wolf pack tactics to corner the chasee, and she eluded them until the final Athletics check to tackle her, and the "putting the ghost to rest" challenge where my heroes had to decipher the babbling of a mad greedy miser ghost, and eventually laid him to rest by placing a bag of gems inside his coffin after a final Athletics check to dig up his coffin and break it open. The list of skills used in those for successes was impressive: Chase (8 successes / 4 failures) - group had 3 failures, so it was a close one. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Athletics x2 - Early attempt to catch her / final tackle. Acrobatics - Rogue jumped from a wagon and onto a roof. History - Wizard wanted to know where the busiest marketplace was located. Streetwise - Warrior wanted to know what directions the crowd would be moving on different streets to force her to make bad decisions. Stealth - Rogue hid behind a corner and tried to nab target as she rounded it. Diplomacy - Cleric asked the crowd to slow the target down. Intimidate - Warlock taunted and mocked the target, causing target to look back over her shoulder and stumble. Ghost (6 successes / 6* failures) - I think the group got up to 2 failures, and I had designed it to be really difficult, so I had the failure rate set for 6 failures which they crushed. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Thievery - Rogue opens the ghosts vault (empty), causing him to speak more coherently. Heal - Cleric determines the cause of death, based on appearance of ghost, was likely old murder. Religion - Warlock knows that ghosts sometimes linger on until things, in their minds, have been set right. History - Wizard knows that the inhabitants of the mansion were murdered by thieves who plundered many riches. Insight - Rogue understands that the miser ghost is acting greedy, and desires something, he unveils the bag of gems that he found in the chest and the ghost tries to grab at them. Athletics - The fighter digs up the coffin, opens it, and places the bag of gems inside, and the miser ghost evaporates into the winds. [/QUOTE]
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A talk on the concept of "failures" in a skill challenge (no math, comments welcome)
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