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<blockquote data-quote="evilbob" data-source="post: 3414640" data-attributes="member: 9789">Seconded, seconded!&nbsp; Hear, hear!&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Do you realize that this mechanic is strikingly similar to the &quot;turn undead variant&quot; rule in Complete Divine?&nbsp; The main difference is in how you handle turn resistance (the splat book just reduces the total damage by turn resistance, instead of x5), and that you've actually decided to handle greater turning (splat book is strangely silent).&nbsp; The turning DC calculation is also just cleric level instead of 1/2, I believe.The main issue I had with the Complete Divine variant is that with a d12 for a hit die, undead tend to be pretty tough - and often times, especially at low levels, you will fight dozens of them, thanks to their low CR.&nbsp; Killing an undead outright is not the same as turning them, but:&nbsp; it's effectively the same, since you're either removing them from combat or placing them in a corner where your friends can beat them to bits.&nbsp; In my opinion, it would be more in line with what the cleric actually does to give the turn undead power a d12 damage die, or in some other way ramp up the strength.&nbsp; Otherwise, its just not worth replacing something that has the chance of removing something from battle altogether with something that just does a little damage.&nbsp; (Also, as you've already fixed, the DC is a weird calculation and the turn resistance gets nerfed - although I think turn resistance should just reduce turn damage by &quot;average of 1 level's worth of damage,&quot; or around 3 in this case.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="evilbob, post: 3414640, member: 9789"] Seconded, seconded! Hear, hear! :) Do you realize that this mechanic is strikingly similar to the "turn undead variant" rule in Complete Divine? The main difference is in how you handle turn resistance (the splat book just reduces the total damage by turn resistance, instead of x5), and that you've actually decided to handle greater turning (splat book is strangely silent). The turning DC calculation is also just cleric level instead of 1/2, I believe. The main issue I had with the Complete Divine variant is that with a d12 for a hit die, undead tend to be pretty tough - and often times, especially at low levels, you will fight dozens of them, thanks to their low CR. Killing an undead outright is not the same as turning them, but: it's effectively the same, since you're either removing them from combat or placing them in a corner where your friends can beat them to bits. In my opinion, it would be more in line with what the cleric actually does to give the turn undead power a d12 damage die, or in some other way ramp up the strength. Otherwise, its just not worth replacing something that has the chance of removing something from battle altogether with something that just does a little damage. (Also, as you've already fixed, the DC is a weird calculation and the turn resistance gets nerfed - although I think turn resistance should just reduce turn damage by "average of 1 level's worth of damage," or around 3 in this case.) [/QUOTE]

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