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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6347499" data-attributes="member: 996">Bloat is inevitable in D&amp;D, because of the way it handled things like character abilities, magic items, monsters and the like:&nbsp; with lists.&nbsp;&nbsp; Long lists of spells, feats, features, maneuvers, skills, items, conditions, special abilities, and so forth.&nbsp; Whenever you add anything to the game, you add to those lists, and each entry in each list potentially (or automatically, even) contains what amount to new mechanics and new sub-systems.There's a whole class of such 'list based' games - probably the majority of RPGs fall into it, really.A bloat-free alternative is freestyle RP, which does away with rules - and thus lists containing lots of rules - entirely.&nbsp; And, of course, with less extreme approaches that have a few broad-stroke guidelines/rules that are adapted on the fly to cover everything.Another alternative is the effects-based system, where the mechanics model the end result of the ability, item use, monster attack, danger, or whatever, and resolve that, without little or no regard to what brought it about.&nbsp; These games are fewer, the best example being how Hero System handles superpowers (and gear, and magic items, and monsters, and spells, and just about everything except skills).&nbsp; (4e D&amp;D, BTW, is arguably a hybrid of effects, because of how it handles class, item &amp; monster 'powers,' - but very much list-based in how it presents them, and also tends toward bloat because of the way every 'exception' of it's Exception Based Design philosophy adds to the mechanics of the game rules).5e, OTOH, seems poised to be hybrid freestyle/list-based, with Rulings not Rules giving the DM license to purge the game of any potential bloat he finds offensive by sheer fiat (the 'banhammer,' as they say), or run the game arbitrarily 'rules lite' by ignoring, overriding, adding or changing rules on the fly.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6347499, member: 996"] Bloat is inevitable in D&D, because of the way it handled things like character abilities, magic items, monsters and the like: with lists. Long lists of spells, feats, features, maneuvers, skills, items, conditions, special abilities, and so forth. Whenever you add anything to the game, you add to those lists, and each entry in each list potentially (or automatically, even) contains what amount to new mechanics and new sub-systems. There's a whole class of such 'list based' games - probably the majority of RPGs fall into it, really. A bloat-free alternative is freestyle RP, which does away with rules - and thus lists containing lots of rules - entirely. And, of course, with less extreme approaches that have a few broad-stroke guidelines/rules that are adapted on the fly to cover everything. Another alternative is the effects-based system, where the mechanics model the end result of the ability, item use, monster attack, danger, or whatever, and resolve that, without little or no regard to what brought it about. These games are fewer, the best example being how Hero System handles superpowers (and gear, and magic items, and monsters, and spells, and just about everything except skills). (4e D&D, BTW, is arguably a hybrid of effects, because of how it handles class, item & monster 'powers,' - but very much list-based in how it presents them, and also tends toward bloat because of the way every 'exception' of it's Exception Based Design philosophy adds to the mechanics of the game rules). 5e, OTOH, seems poised to be hybrid freestyle/list-based, with Rulings not Rules giving the DM license to purge the game of any potential bloat he finds offensive by sheer fiat (the 'banhammer,' as they say), or run the game arbitrarily 'rules lite' by ignoring, overriding, adding or changing rules on the fly. [/QUOTE]

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