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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scurvy_Platypus" data-source="post: 4853371" data-attributes="member: 43283">*cough*Actually, I _did_ say something like that...Me, I'm not going to speculate on what it is that krupintupple and the other folks at his table are after in terms of play and running the game. People show up at the table with all kinds of agendas and those get further muddled by all sorts of different things.I don't think krupintupple (or his other players) take it too seriously, I just happen to think they're more invested in the game in particular ways than the other two people are.Woah there. I'm certainly not going to be out there telling folks that my way is the "right" way... heck no. I'm one of those dirty "casual" guys that a lot of people seem to feel are ruining the hobby and a blight on GMs everywhere. The guy that doesn't feel like reading the background book? Yup, that's me. Forgotten Realms? The only way I'll have anything to do with it is if I'm running my old grey box edition of it. I'm the guy that doesn't remember to add in flanking bonuses and have plenty of fun running a straight by core book fighter, despite everyone on the internet talking for years about how gimped and worthless the Fighter is. I _know_ my way of playing is alien to most folks on the message boards; hell, I don't even consider myself a _gamer_ even though I run/play rpgs. My values are way different than most other gamers I've seen for...over a decade at least.I think you're misunderstanding what I said...There's two seperate thoughts there. The second one is what you're talking about. It's a personal opinion... rpgs are a way of playing Invisible Barbie. You dress up your Barbie, and then go off and do stuff with it. I watched an awful lot of Barbie play over the years and there's a lot of similarity to what I've seen go on in rpgs.People taking it way more seriously than it warrants in my opinion? Oh hell yes. Every time you see folks start Edition warring? Every time you see folks fighting about what system is "better"? All those fights (usually not around here) about rpg theory? How about all those people you've run into over the years (or at least that I have) that have difficulty having a conversation without talking about the latest exploits of their character? People nerd-raging because fluff from such-and-such a book conflicts with this other book? Nerd-rage over this or that change that's been made to [whatever]... it's _really_ not hard for me to find people taking stuff way too seriously.Folks have a right to be invested in something to whatever degree they feel like. It doesn't mean I'm not going to think that some of 'em are taking it too seriously. I'm not going to say they're "wrong" for doing so, I'm just not going to really understand why they've got that much investment in something so intangible when they can say "[this] is the way it works instead..." and instantly resolve whatever problem is going on.Hey man, thanks for reading my thoughts and responding. Sometimes on a forum it can be kinda difficult to actually develop a good dialogue...Maybe. On the other hand, if you're looking to spice up your game with some of this stuff... I say go for it, but maybe not full-bore. Set up a bad-guy that relies a bunch on Summoning and issues some smackdown. Have another one that's all about Counterspelling... maybe later the two can work together, with the Counterspeller suppressing PC magic, while the Summoner ships in the pain.It's been my experience over the years that many players don't go for this or that option because they feel a GM isn't open to it, or is going to cock-block them every time they try something. If you've got something cool that you wish the players would try playing around with, use it yourself in a limited fashion and then let the PCs get in on some of the action.The trick is to do it in a limited enough fashion that the players can see the cool and how they can utilize it for themselves, without making them feel like you're just steamrollering them with cool stuff they'd never get to use. That's the hard part.Some dogs, you'll just never be able to teach new tricks. I've had a few of those over the years and it can be frustrating. It does sound like you/others in your group have managed to catch the Cleric's interest though, so that's groovy. In time, it could be that the player of the mage will see how the Cleric is having (presumably) more fun and less deaths and will become more receptive to suggestions.I've known more than a few players that dug in their heels and refused to do something different, just because they hated people telling them what to do/how to do it. Kinda that old saw about "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink".  The rejoinder to that is often "but you _can_ salt his feed". The Cleric having more fun and less deaths might be the salt that the mage needs in his feed.Heh. Yeah, serious potential problem there. There really isn't a good solution to this in my own experience. Everything from in-game rewards to "roleplaying" bonus experience to targetted enemies... it's all like water off a duck's back. At the end of the day, this is just one of those things that seems to need to be sorted out outside the game, as it's too easy for misunderstanding and hurt feelings to occur otherwise. And even then, it can be upsetting for some players to find out that what they're after in a game isn't the same thing as everyone else. I personally don't think there's an easy solution, which is why a lot of groups just kinda suffer (mostly) quietly.Seems like the right way to go. If you're feeling a little heavy-handed you could even use this a bit yourself. Have a villain of somesort that's a bit fireball happy and let the party benefit from it (and come across some of the ruined stuff too). Don't make the NPC in question be a caricature of the mage and don't get all preachy either, just let the party get one (or more) over on the fellow because of his tactics. I'd be reeeeeaaalllyyy surprised if some other member of the group didn't point out to the mage how it is they've gotten one over on the villain because of it, as well as how it'd make their lives easier if the mage wasn't doing the same thing.</blockquote>

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