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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Saeviomagy" data-source="post: 2295718" data-attributes="member: 5890">Each one is supposed to take some fraction of 20% of the party resources. Most of the time, especially when the monsters totally fail to use tactics, this will end up being almost zero. Occasionally a lucky crit will get through.You totally don't understand the CR system. A SINGLE fighter at level 9 is a CR 9. A CR 9 encounter is supposed to take 20% of the resources of the party to defeat.In short - CR 9 is not the same power level as an entire party. And if you keep using bad tactics with him, then you're cutting off a point or two in CR anyway.So you're saying that the low-level mooks used up party resources, just like they're supposed to.I guess your comparison to mowing through them like grass was totally pointless then.Don't see why that should help - then they just switch to throwing stuff... Assuming they're not on "charge the living blender and hope to make it through" mode.HERE IS YOUR PROBLEM. The whirlwind guy can, at best, 5' step to get into position before whirlwinding. At that point you're saying that it's a regular to have 4 guys within 5' of him? And that those guys STAY within 5' of him for further rounds?Because for some reason the NPC's are morons who stay within 5' of someone with whirlwind. I'll agree that reach makes this a slightly more common tactic, but it's still not that great.And what are those NPCs doing on their go? If the answer is "nothing, they're not effective melee combatants", then there's the problem. They're not effective melee combatants, and should never have been in melee in the first place.Otherwise, I can really see mr spiked chain fighter expending a lot of resources (ie - hitpoints) to keep this up. I mean - just imagine if those guys are 5th level rogues? Or even if they just two-handed power attack their flanking bonus away.Or, gasp, if one of them trips, grapples, disarms or sunders. My goodness - Mr whirlwind is suddenly a non-threat.All day long, as long as he remains in combat with 4+ foes at a time and doesn't get killed. Mr mage is doing it from 400+ feet away...Well, if you insist on using NPC's who act like they're invited to a blender party at Mr Spiked-chain's house, yes. Otherwise cleave/great cleave has this nice advantage that you don't really need to set it up before you use it. You can charge, move etc etc and still potentially get that cleave.WWA requires you to 5' step and no more. After the first one, the guy should basically not be able to use it effectively for most of the rest of the fight, unless he's fighting morons.I swear - this is the first time I've heard the argument"This tactic is too powerful because it lets people mow through low level mooks who don't use tactics with only a small expenditure in resources".</blockquote>

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