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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FireLance" data-source="post: 2295945" data-attributes="member: 3424">I think it all depends on what you consider to be a "challenge".From the perspective of the game, a "challenge" uses up party resources. These resources can be anything - spells, hit points, daily use class abilities, magic item charges, etc. Just because the party hasn't lost hit points, it doesn't mean that the encounter wasn't a challenge, if the party used up spells, class abilities, etc. A party can be relatively uninjured and still low on resources because its spells, daily use abilities, etc. are almost used up. I was in such a situation once, and warned my fellow players that we should retreat to rest. They ignored me and the next encounter almost resulted in a TPK. :\Similarly, just because the party defeats the opponents easily, it doesn't mean that the encounter wasn't a challenge, if the party used up spells, class abilities, got injured, etc. It seems to me that in order for your party to defeat the opponents easily, they did use a fair number of their resources - bardic music, buff spells, and possibly hit points as well.Several people, including myself, see Great Cleave as one of the least useful feats in the game. Perhaps it is because the games that we play tend to feature fewer and more powerful opponents than more, weaker opponents. Ideally, of course, a game should feature both types of encounters.Look at it in terms of spells. Games which feature fewer, but more powerful opponents would tend to favor spells that deal a large amount of damage to a single opponent like disintegrate. Games that feature more, but less powerful opponents would tend to favor spells that deal less damage to a larger number of creatures, like fireball. However, it doesn't mean that either spell is unbalanced.Resource expenditure for fighter-types and other characters who can use their abilities an unlimited number of times per day is quite different from spellcasters and other characters whose abilities have daily use limits. The only real limitation is hit points, which is what they risk losing every time they get within range of a melee or ranged attack (whether or not the attack hits). They shouldn't be expected to have the same resource depletion curve as spellcasters.As long as you and your players are having fun, you're not doing anything wrong. I'm just hoping to persuade you that Whirlwind Attack isn't that bad in general, although it might not be right for your game.</blockquote>

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