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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MwaO" data-source="post: 7056204" data-attributes="member: 12749">I think that's complex to do without overvaluing modifiers. The advantage of Int to a Fighter is usually small compared to Dex. They don't have an Int-based skills. Etc...What I think is more important is to make clear that having a starting 20 in a stat is usually a really bad idea. Either because it isn't possible(5e point buy/array) or because it is so expensive that the value is usually negative. And that it is probably okay to have a skill in a stat that isn't particularly great. Once that realization can be made, then things usually work out.4e has a problem there, because people who aren't really strong optimizers put 20s in their stat because they realize to-hit is important. That's a very expensive way to get a +1 to hit usually with some specific exceptions. Which probably means 4e would have been better off not allowing higher than a 16 pre-racial. And it seems a waste to say get a Cha-based skill on a Fighter with a 10 Cha.i.e. the problem is not dump stats, the problem is a complete lack of decent tertiary stats and then not picking skills in those areas. My favorite 4e PC with a 12 Dex picked Stealth and Thievery. He took Arcane Mutterings to be good at Cha-skills. He had a wide range of capabilities in almost any skill challenge, even if the stealth/thievery weren't particularly great - +16 Stealth/+14 Thievery(+16 w/tools) at 17th. But that's only -5 behind the +21 on Arcana/History from the starting 18 Int+Eladrin.</blockquote>

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