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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jasin" data-source="post: 3612185" data-attributes="member: 7531">My (theoretical) +25/+20/+15 for 1d8+15 doesn't seem so bad to me, then.As you said, the wizard is already powerful enough without being able to outdo the fighter in the fighter's area of expertise. So I'm not expecting a wizard to match the fighters +27 with +37.But if a fighter is at +27/+22/+17 for 1d10+18, I think +25/+20/+15 for 1d8+15 is a decent contribution in situations where otherwise I'd just plink away for ~17 hp from a magic missile wand. It's not as safe, but there's a certain thrill in melee that you just don't get from saying "I do... what I did last round! 5d4+5!"Another reason I find this interesting is that I prefer spells that give me something to do for the duration of the combat over instantaneous ones. Cone of cold is OK, but that's one round. With telekinesis, I get to do something every round, without spending more spells. And self-buffs for melee are like telekinesis in that regard.</blockquote>