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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jaer" data-source="post: 4038904" data-attributes="member: 57861">Indeed.  The biggest problem is that grappling was not an effective deterent from attacking people in the grapple.  For the most part, it sucked to grapple someone.  Villian starts a grapple and suddenly he - isn't threatening- has no dex (sneak attackable!)- no movement- reduced to natural or light weapons- can't cast (for the most part)- has a 50% chance of not being hit by missile weaponsIn the typical 3e fights (4 PCs vs 1 bad guy), getting into a grapple was pretty much doom!  If a monster didn't have Swallow Whole, there was rarely a reason for a creature to grapple.  There are more negatives to it that benefits.  if the monster had rake or some other attack when the grapple happened, I would always Imp Grab, rake, drop the grapple.  There was no reason to maintain it from round to round.Why is it that only missile attacks have a chance to hit either opponent in a grapple?  If two people are tusselling in the same square, a sword strike could hit either.  Any attack against equal sized opponents should have a chance to hit either.  If an opponent is 1 size larger, make it a 75%/25% chance; 2 larger, no chance to not hit the one you want.I understand the opponets lacking dex, but no way should that allow for a sneak attack...how can you line up a stab to the liver if the opponent keeps shufflinf around and his liver is covered by your friend?Once an opponet is pinned by your friend, there should be no chance to hit your friend (but if your friend is being attacked, it can still hit either, your friend being able to cover himself with the pinned opponent) and sneak attacks should be viable against the one who is pinned.  Movement should be slowed, but doable.It should be like any hostage situation, really - the bad guy has the peasent girl pinned and is using her to defend himself from the PCs.  If they attack him, they stand a good chance of hitting the girl instead.That is how I would like to see the grapple rules changed.  I don't think a grapple was beneficial enough for most creatures (even ones with Imp Grab) or PCs engage in one.  Pinning was like the poor-man's Hold Person.  You could try to get out of either every round, but a wizard drops a Hold Person and the target is held; wizard goes on to blast other people with spells.  Monk pins an opponet, it takes 2 rounds, and now the monk can do nothing more than maintain the pin, taking themselves out of combat.</blockquote>

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