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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 4479818" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p><strong>SPOILERS FOR SELF-EXPLANATION</strong></p><p>[sblock]</p><p></p><p></p><p>I never claimed that, though. I didn't talk about how it disrupted anything. I don't think 4e does disrupt anyone's ability to tell stories.</p><p></p><p>I have said, a couple of times now, that I am finding that I prefer a game where the two reinforce each other (such as the Sanity rules in CoC), rather than being separate from each other (such as the monster creation rules in 4e). 4e's rules don't work together with any story because 4e leaves the story a blank sheet to let the DM fill it in, independent of the rules.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I just think you're not understanding me. Here, let me try to explain myself better.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In referring to the link I provided, these examples are specifically mentioned as disconnects between the rules and the game. In these videogame examples, these are places where you would expect to be able to have freedom, that you really don't. You can't bring Aeris back and you have to go on the quest, even if it would make sense that other things happen. </p><p></p><p>In the next paragraph, I go on to say how this applies to D&D:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>To elaborate on this point, what you get, specifically, are such things as:</p><p></p><p>1. the 4e monster creation rules, which give you numbers without a story, and</p><p>2. the rules for "tripping oozes," as pointed out above, that show you that numbers and story are completely independent of each other. </p><p></p><p>There are other examples, all throughout the rules, of this siloing occurring. This hard siloing is a Bad Thing for me, because:</p><p></p><p>I like it when the game and the story go hand-in-hand.</p><p></p><p>Examples of this include</p><p></p><p>1. Sanity from CoC</p><p>2. Fear, Horror, and Madness checks in Ravenloft</p><p>3. the Jenga tower in Dread</p><p>4. Vile Magic in the BoVD that dealt ability score damage to cast</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I will, because it seems that you have not well understood me (I don't think you were the only one, so I may not have been being very clear), so a lot of that discussion isn't about anything that I really raised the topic to discuss. If you understand me better, and still think they apply, go ahead and put them back up, and I'll do my best to respond. If you still think I'm arguing about the disconnect actively hindering anything, perhaps it would be better to just not post in the thread? That's certainly not the conversation I want to have, because it's not something I actually believe to be true. </p><p></p><p>Rather...</p><p>[/sblock]</p><p></p><p>I want to see if others have this same sense that rules/story cross-pollination is a good thing, and perhaps talk about some systems that do it very well, and some systems that don't, and what makes the best kinds of these rules and what attempts weren't so successful and what can be done to inject this into any gaming experience and....</p><p></p><p>Et Cetra. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 4479818, member: 2067"] [B]SPOILERS FOR SELF-EXPLANATION[/B] [sblock] I never claimed that, though. I didn't talk about how it disrupted anything. I don't think 4e does disrupt anyone's ability to tell stories. I have said, a couple of times now, that I am finding that I prefer a game where the two reinforce each other (such as the Sanity rules in CoC), rather than being separate from each other (such as the monster creation rules in 4e). 4e's rules don't work together with any story because 4e leaves the story a blank sheet to let the DM fill it in, independent of the rules. I just think you're not understanding me. Here, let me try to explain myself better. In referring to the link I provided, these examples are specifically mentioned as disconnects between the rules and the game. In these videogame examples, these are places where you would expect to be able to have freedom, that you really don't. You can't bring Aeris back and you have to go on the quest, even if it would make sense that other things happen. In the next paragraph, I go on to say how this applies to D&D: To elaborate on this point, what you get, specifically, are such things as: 1. the 4e monster creation rules, which give you numbers without a story, and 2. the rules for "tripping oozes," as pointed out above, that show you that numbers and story are completely independent of each other. There are other examples, all throughout the rules, of this siloing occurring. This hard siloing is a Bad Thing for me, because: I like it when the game and the story go hand-in-hand. Examples of this include 1. Sanity from CoC 2. Fear, Horror, and Madness checks in Ravenloft 3. the Jenga tower in Dread 4. Vile Magic in the BoVD that dealt ability score damage to cast I will, because it seems that you have not well understood me (I don't think you were the only one, so I may not have been being very clear), so a lot of that discussion isn't about anything that I really raised the topic to discuss. If you understand me better, and still think they apply, go ahead and put them back up, and I'll do my best to respond. If you still think I'm arguing about the disconnect actively hindering anything, perhaps it would be better to just not post in the thread? That's certainly not the conversation I want to have, because it's not something I actually believe to be true. Rather... [/sblock] I want to see if others have this same sense that rules/story cross-pollination is a good thing, and perhaps talk about some systems that do it very well, and some systems that don't, and what makes the best kinds of these rules and what attempts weren't so successful and what can be done to inject this into any gaming experience and.... Et Cetra. :) [/QUOTE]
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