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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tessarael" data-source="post: 9808289" data-attributes="member: 12909">Scanning through <a href="https://a5e.tools/monsters?field_monster_challenge_rating_target_id%5B%5D=374&field_monster_challenge_rating_target_id%5B%5D=373&field_monster_challenge_rating_target_id%5B%5D=375&field_monster_challenge_rating_target_id%5B%5D=376&field_monster_challenge_rating_target_id%5B%5D=377&field_monster_challenge_rating_target_id%5B%5D=378&field_monster_challenge_rating_target_id%5B%5D=379&field_monster_challenge_rating_target_id%5B%5D=380&field_monster_challenge_rating_target_id%5B%5D=381&field_monster_challenge_rating_target_id%5B%5D=382&field_monster_type_target_id%5B%5D=360&field_monster_type_target_id%5B%5D=371&combine=" target="_blank">A5E Beasts and Plants up to CR 6</a>, almost none of them have saving throw proficiencies in A5E. (I'm ignoring unique creatures therein.) This is consistent with D&D 2014. I assume this is designer intent.Notably, D&D 2024 does have quite a few with saving throw proficiency. For example, the <a href="https://5e.tools/bestiary.html#mammoth_xmm" target="_blank">D&D 2024 Mammoth</a> has Strength and Constitution saving throw proficiencies, whereas the <a href="https://5e.tools/bestiary.html#mammoth_mm" target="_blank">D&D 2014 Mammoth</a> does not.<a href="https://a5e.tools/node/1970" target="_blank">Jackalope</a> with Strength/Dexterity/Constitution saving throw proficiencies is the big exception. Awesome for a level 9 Druid Skinchanger to wild shape into as Jackalope is CR 3.Interestingly, A5E Pets & Sidekicks adds in two saving throw proficiencies at first heroic companion level, if it has less than two. Following the rules therein to raise CR with heroic levels for Druid wild shapes, you can pick up saving throw proficiencies that way. The basic rule is to add the shapes CR + the number of heroic companion levels/2, rounding up.So for example, I'd level up <a href="https://a5e.tools/node/1907" target="_blank">Ape</a> from CR 1/2 following those guidelines in this sort of manner:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">ApeCR 1/2->1 with 1 heroic level:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">As it has multi-attack, I would model the extra damage instead as +1 attack/damage with Strength 16->18.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">This improves its two fists multi-attack to attack +6, damage d4+4. Average of 13 if both hit, no critical hits.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Saving throw proficiency in Strength (+6) and Constitution (+4).</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">ApeCR 1/2->2 with 3 heroic levels:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">As it has multi-attack, I would model the extra damage instead as +2 attack/damage, Strength 16->20.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">This improves its two fists multi-attack to attack +7, damage d4+5. Average of 15 if both hit, no critical hits.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Saving throw proficiency in Strength (+7) and Constitution (+4).</li> </ul></li> </ul>From a damage output perspective, you're generally better off picking a wild shape option that is already of that CR. However, to get the saving throw proficiencies of the wild shape, leveling up a lower CR wild shape is pretty much the only way to do it with A5E beasts and plants, with the exception of Jackalope.Thoughts?</blockquote>

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