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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kobold Stew" data-source="post: 2687169" data-attributes="member: 23484">Sure, you could use any race as a point of reference, but that does nothing to make the point moot. Whatever you use as the base (I happened to choose one of the LA + 0 races that had no change in stats because it is simplest to see), the fact that you lose the benefits associated with being ANY LA +0 race when you take an LA + 1 race MUST be taken into consideration. It is not moot at all.Yes, "it is just a frame of reference" in that one could pick a different LA + 0 race other than human; I chose the simplest one, but we could make it more complicated by picking a different race--fair enough. But it is incorrect not to take any race as a starting point -- that is actively misleading when one reckons the cost of an LA + 1 (or +2 or whatever) race. I don't think there is anything we are actually disagreeing about; is there?</blockquote>