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Message: <blockquote data-quote="kenjib" data-source="post: 742537" data-attributes="member: 530">In a previous post, you said that ECL can be used to balance out a character who buys abilities in this fashion.  Therefore, a 1st level +9ECL character should roughly match a 10th level character.  Here you seem to be implying otherwise.  Are we once again back to eye-balling it and diminishing the utility of the CR/EL system?As of yet, nobody has addressed the problem introduced by the XP cost becoming increasingly insignificant as you get higher in level.  When you start getting around 1000XP for a single equal-CR opponent (not to mention higher CR opponents), 1000XP becomes relatively insignificant compared to the benefit of an entire school of bonus abilities.  Training time requirements are worthless because the availability of time varies so dramatically from campaign to campaign and there are no supporting mechanisms in the system for measuring or limiting time (as opposed to wealth).  He points this out in his post, as I did back in my first post.At first level, a +1ECL is worth a few of these virtual feats maybe.  At 19th level, a +1ECL becomes worth dozens of these virtual feats?Yeah, it's a problem with magic items too, albeit a lesser one due to the issues I presented in my second post.  Is it a good idea, though, to find the loopholes and weak points of a system and expand upon them?  I don't think so, myself.  I'd rather focus on the strong points.Do you, as a DM, buy new supplements to increase your workload or to make your job easier?  Why use something that you have to micromanage and arbitrarily rule against when someone crosses the invisible "abuse" line when you can just use a different mechanic that doesn't have these problems but provides the same benefits of customization (prestige classes and to a lesser extent feats)?I still fail to see what benefits these provide that a prestige class doesn't.  All they do is circumvent the levelling system, but that's the very source of the problem because levelling is supposed to be a concrete gauge of power in this game.  Sure, there are some loopholes in the game already (item creation and getting level drained are pretty much all I can think of though -- since there are guidelines for starting stats), but the more factors you introduce that obfiscate this relationship, the more difficult the DM's job becomes.You gain a level -- you get new abilities.  You take a prestige class -- you get unique abilities and refine your character concept.  It works well.  I don't think it's healthy for a level/class game system in the long run to continue to add mechanics that further distance the relationship between level and power.Anyways, if they work for your group, that's great.  I won't use them though.  I find that there are more effective alternatives to achieve the same purpose.</blockquote>

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