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Message: <blockquote data-quote="LokiDR" data-source="post: 742706" data-attributes="member: 6239">Power with costPower with cost:That is what I see as the problem.  Any time your character gets some new ability, from class or item or whatever, there should be a balancing factor.  Items count against your gold per level, which can be managed to maintain balance.  Abilities in class (base, PrC or  ECL) are figured into your level, and therefore experience (no matter how you figure XP, APL is in there).So, if you use XP for 'fighting styles', what is the balance?  Kreynolds says change it in for ECL, which makes sense to me.  But if you spend 1000xp for non-dispellable evasion that doesn't change your ECL or count against your gp/level, what stops rampant use?  Note, this argument works against several spells, expecially permancy, as well as magic items, to a lesser extent.  I think permancy has the same problem and should be changed.A lot of the argument against abuse is "my players won't abuse it" or "the system seems balanced".  That can be fine in your game, where you control all aspects, but it destroys a vital compont of D20 - interoperability.  I know there are strong and weak PrCs, feats, spells, ect, but LEVEL is a good starting point.  If level doesn't even mean that much, you have taken away a very cool element of the rule system.A 20th level fighter who spent a lot of XP on styles is better than a 20th level fighter who didn't, assuming comparable magic items.  I don't like rules that create that divide.But spells and magic item creation do exactly this under core rules.  Money/level helps balance magic items, but what about permancy?  My solution: give the non-spellcasters the same chance to spend XP, or elimate it entirely for permenent boosts.  Commune (and other spells) still takes some XP, just prevent its constant use, but it doesn't give you an ability you didn't have forever, and it gives you a solution that wins the party experience.On a side note, Hong's system for spending XP for items has been mentioned.  I use a similar system, but it isn't really relevant here.  The XP spent prevents leveling and the item counts against money/level limit.  It is only an alternate way to pay for an item.Someone else mentioned XP~GP and that either should be able to be spent for stuff.  But these "kits" don't affect level and gold.  You don't get an item, you get an ability that can't be taken away.  If there is no balance (ECL or gp/level), you got ahead of some one who didn't get the ability over the long run.Finally (sorry about the length) I would like to add my vote to the "abilities cost more at higher levels" that comes with ECL but doesn't with XP-for-abilities.</blockquote>

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