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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Greenfaun" data-source="post: 4255259" data-attributes="member: 55366">Um, which myths and legends? I'm not a folklorist, but generally in fairy tales and whatnot goblins are hostile, greedy, dangerous, and often have predatory physical features like sharp pointy teeth or the like. In Tolkien, which hopefully we can agree is one of the supporting pillars of the consensual unreality of D&D, goblins are smallish, ugly, bloodthirsty, cowardly, and they bully each other and sing sadistic songs to dwarves that they've treed. They also may or may not be a subtype of orc, I'm still a little unclear on that. In more recent pop-culture, Harry Potterverse goblins are short, ugly, cantankerous, and rich. Spiderwick Chronicles goblins are nearly feral, ugly, and mean. Even Labyrinth goblins are mostly a bad lot, and David Bowie was the only one who wasn't physically deformed. So, that's where my concept of goblins comes from. It's true that they're generally highly social, but that's about as close to charismatic as you can get, and that's not close enough to justify a racial bonus for me. Of course WOTC could change their goblins, it's their prerogative and their IP, but it clashes with my internal concept of the definition of the word "goblin" and I don't think I'm the only one. ... whoa, that turned into a wall of text. Sorry. All this is a sidetrack to the already small and persnickety topic I meant to be discussing with this thread, though. Say you want Goblins to be charismatic, fine. Should they also be as strong and tough as humans? Or can they be specialized and unusual when compared to humans, by being much better at some things and noticeably worse at others, across the board? Not that stat penalties are even the only way to achieve that feel in the game, really. I just kinda think they work.</blockquote>

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