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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Greenfaun" data-source="post: 4260442" data-attributes="member: 55366">I love both those comics, but the fact that they are both explicitly based on D&D makes using them as an example sort of recursive. Also, both of those comics go out of their way to twist and satirize the conventional assumptions within D&D. Something as global as racial features should UPHOLD the conventional assumptions within D&D, in my opinion. And this sort of brings me to my next point. A couple people have argued that heroic goblins can be charismatic and a bonus to charisma doesn't mean you have to make a high-charisma character, and therefore the bonuses are fine. I don't think that conclusion is right, because I don't think that's how racial bonuses work. (should work?)For instance, I think nearly everyone would disagree that the dwarf racial bonuses should be +2 Dex, +2 Cha. Why? Why couldn't you assume that any dwarf who wants to leave the caves is unusually agile and personable? It's not like you couldn't still make a high-con, high-wisdom dwarf if that's how you want your dwarf to be. It doesn't mean the stats are wrong.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> See, dwarves shouldn't have +2 Dex, +2 Cha, and halflings shouldn't have +2 Str, +2 Con, because those aren't the stereotypical attributes of the race. Of course individuals can vary, I wouldn't disallow a brawny halfling fighter in my game any more than I'd disallow a charismatic goblin, but our shared assumptions about what a race is good at and bad at is exactly what should influence their bonuses (or lacks thereof)See, even if it only applies to PC races, it still changes things. If you compare everyone who makes an elf PC to everyone who makes a Goblin PC, and assume that they choose classes that don't benefit from their racial bonuses in approximately the same proportions, then the goblin PC's as an aggregate are still going to have more charisma than the elves. To put it another way, should all the heroic, unusual goblins in the world be exactly as good (on average) at manipulating, deceiving, seducing, and inspiring other sophonts as all the heroic, unusual drow in the world? I say no, drow should have an edge at that sort of thing, because it''s, well, drow-ier. In the rules I've seen, the only difference is drow get a racial bonus to intimidate. Other than that, they're mechanically equal. And don't say drow are higher-level monsters, because remember we're only talking about the rules for PC's.Now, I hope I haven't sidetracked this thread even further by dragging the drow fans and haters into the brawl. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Thanks to everyone who answered the poll, though. It seems I'm outside the mainstream on this one. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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