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Message: <blockquote data-quote="delericho" data-source="post: 2475889" data-attributes="member: 22424">I agree with everything you say to this point.This I don't quite agree with. I think the group as a whole has to discuss power levels and acceptable concepts as a whole. If the DM wants to play a very low-powered game, and the players want to play a heroic game, there's a problem there, and there needs to be some movement on one end. And I don't feel that it's necessarily the players that should change. So, I feel the group needs to determine the chargen method together.Yes, I agree with this, except that the group should set the guidelines together.What adjudication? The group decide to use 3/4d6, with no rerolls allowed, and then complain that they don't get the results that they want?On the other hand, if the group had decided to use 3/4d6 with one reroll, or two rerolls, or rerolls if the numbers were unbalanced by X amount, then we use that, as stated. Either way, the system that was agreed is used.No, I don't like random rolls, and I will make that clear to my players if I'm in that situation. If, however, the players are keen to use random rolls, then that's fair enough. But we'll then discuss exactly what random rolls to use, what rerolls to allow, and so on. But once a system is determined, that's it.If the system is "3/4d6, reroll at the DM's whim", then what happens if everyone rolls a net +1 modifier and someone rolls +7? Does the DM have everyone else reroll, or the one player who rolls really well? If I were the player who rolled +7, I'd be really pissed if the DM tried to insist on that - such stats don't happen often.Conversely, if one player rolls net +1, and everyone else is at +4, what happens if the reroll gives that player a +9?So, I'm sorry, but I'll not adjudicate random rolls. The group will develop a system, and use it as written.Not a chance. I have a preference for point-buy, but if the group decide to go with random rolls, then so be it. I'll not gloat over a player's low rolls, nor will I overrule high rolls. (Caveat: I will witness the rolls.) Once the decision is made, I'll accept it and move on. I have better things to argue about.And, on a related note, I won't go out of my way to victimise a character because he happens to have rolled high stats, or has found a corner in the rules where his character is super-optimised. Similarly, I won't nerf the challenges faced by a character whose player has rolled low, or failed to optimise. What I will do is ensure I design challenges that allow each character time in the spotlight, preferably in a way that limits the ability of the super-character to steal the spotlight, but I'll do that for random rolls and point buy equally. I generally take the view that, under a random roll scheme, the concept has to follow the stat rolls, and not the other way around. It strikes me that there are very few concepts that are so dependent on a particular number of 'good' stats that they can't work with whatever's rolled (with modification to the concept as required). Likewise, there are very few concepts that cannot be fit around a 'bad' stat or two. And those concepts really aren't suited to a random-roll scheme. If you must have a particular combination, you should really be using point-buy.In the event that I'm DMing for a group that's going with random rolls, we'll have discussed the two main pitfalls of random rolls: you might be stuck with one or two bad stats, perhaps even really bad stats, and one PC may be significantly better or worse than the others. Before the decision is taken, the group will have been asked if they're okay with that. Only if the answer is 'yes' will random-roll be used. Under those circumstances, I honestly don't believe it's unreasonable for the DM to deny a reroll to the player who rolled a 5. He agreed to the risk, and got unlucky.</blockquote>

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