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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8380546" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Okay, then following that...No. See, because the game is encouraging the archetypes. They expect you to do that. Therefore they expect you will have the ASI applied, and your character isn't complete at first level until after they do that. I'm not talking the 16 is the baseline before racial ASIs, I'm talking about 16 being the baseline for a completed 1st level character, which is after racial ASIs. Those +modifiers aren't &quot;amplifying&quot; the character, they are the baseline.And why not. That is the fundamental question that led to Tashas and the boogieman of the change for 6e. Why is it that these archetypes should be more powerful and be the expected baseline? An Orc Druid as an orcish shaman is also a really solid fantasy trope, but it isn't an archetype the game was initially designed to enforce, and.. now it can be. How is there anything bad to that? The old archetypes still exist, but now newer archetypes can also get a chance to shine. Orc Druids. Gnomish Clerics. Dragonborn Monks. Lizardfolk Warlocks. These archetypes deserve a chance to be just as initially powerful as the dwarven fighter and elvish ranger. Especially since Humans are already that powerful for every single class in the game. And human anything isn't even really &quot;archetypical&quot; in the same way.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8380546, member: 6801228"] Okay, then following that... No. See, because the game is encouraging the archetypes. They expect you to do that. Therefore they expect you will have the ASI applied, and your character isn't complete at first level until after they do that. I'm not talking the 16 is the baseline before racial ASIs, I'm talking about 16 being the baseline for a completed 1st level character, which is after racial ASIs. Those +modifiers aren't "amplifying" the character, they are the baseline. And why not. That is the fundamental question that led to Tashas and the boogieman of the change for 6e. Why is it that these archetypes should be more powerful and be the expected baseline? An Orc Druid as an orcish shaman is also a really solid fantasy trope, but it isn't an archetype the game was initially designed to enforce, and.. now it can be. How is there anything bad to that? The old archetypes still exist, but now newer archetypes can also get a chance to shine. Orc Druids. Gnomish Clerics. Dragonborn Monks. Lizardfolk Warlocks. These archetypes deserve a chance to be just as initially powerful as the dwarven fighter and elvish ranger. Especially since Humans are already that powerful for every single class in the game. And human anything isn't even really "archetypical" in the same way. [/QUOTE]

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