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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 8380887" data-attributes="member: 23751">If you say, &quot;did not actively discourage,&quot; you are saying that they passively discouraged.&nbsp; If you had really meant that they did not discourage, the word &quot;active&quot; would not have been present.&nbsp;&nbsp; You would have just said, &quot;they did not discourage.&quot;&nbsp; Words mean things.Armored wizards are against type.&nbsp; They encouraged armored wizards, including dwarven ones, buy allowing wizards to cast in everything up to and including plate mail.It doesn't clearly show it.&nbsp; A bunch of assumption based on arbitrarily liking 65%, instead of 60% does not clear design intent make.No, it absolutely is not.&nbsp; It's balanced around ALL races, not humans. And so okay, since you seem to think that because I'm using humans to compare elves to that they designed the game around humans for me, I'll switch it up.&nbsp; Elves are more dexterous on average than dwarves!&nbsp; Elves are more dexterous on average than orcs!&nbsp; I can keep going, but I'm sure you get the point.&nbsp; It's not about humans.&nbsp; It's about game balance as a whole, which means all races.It would have been stupid for them to balance the game around any one race and then after they were done, created the other races around the first race.&nbsp; Instead they would have just set baseline math and created every race, including humans, around that baseline.They don't say that.&nbsp; At face value, if I make an elven rogue with the array and put a 15 into charisma and a 13 into dex, with the +2 dex is my highest score.&nbsp; They didn't say, &quot;You can make a rogue quickly by following these suggestions. First, you should make your Dexterity the highest possible number you can achieve.&quot;&nbsp; They are not assuming that you will choose a dex race when making that statement.&nbsp; 15 is the highest(unless you roll) that you can place.No.&nbsp; If I end up with 2 15s and a 14, both 15s are my highest stat. And now you're trying to tell me that they are dictating where you put your ASIs?&nbsp; Just no.&nbsp; they are not expecting an 18 by level 4 or 20 by level 8.&nbsp; Read ability score improvement.&nbsp; It says score or scores of your choice.&nbsp; There's not even a dex suggestion like you quote above there for you to rely on for this assumption of yours.You are going to need to quote the designers or game saying straight out that they expect +3 for it to be anything other than your(and the others making the claim) assumption.So am I.&nbsp; If the game is easy with a 14(and it is), then a 14 is good.&nbsp; Not viable.&nbsp; Good.I don't need to.&nbsp; Clerics are in type for dwarves.&nbsp; Dwarven clerics are a staple. Note, I'm talking about dwarves as a whole, because that's what the type encompasses.&nbsp; The type is not hill dwarf Clerics.&nbsp; It's dwarven clerics.&nbsp; Mountain dwarf clerics are as in type as hill dwarf clerics and mountain dwarves get no wisdom bonus.&nbsp; And done.&nbsp; You've been proven wrong.Um.&nbsp; Yes it does exist.&nbsp; Heck, even in real life you can specialize in animal biology, human biology, etc.&nbsp; Because different species have different biologies.&nbsp; Elven biology would be different from dwarven biology which is different than gnome biology.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 8380887, member: 23751"] If you say, "did not actively discourage," you are saying that they passively discouraged. If you had really meant that they did not discourage, the word "active" would not have been present. You would have just said, "they did not discourage." Words mean things. Armored wizards are against type. They encouraged armored wizards, including dwarven ones, buy allowing wizards to cast in everything up to and including plate mail. It doesn't clearly show it. A bunch of assumption based on arbitrarily liking 65%, instead of 60% does not clear design intent make. No, it absolutely is not. It's balanced around ALL races, not humans. And so okay, since you seem to think that because I'm using humans to compare elves to that they designed the game around humans for me, I'll switch it up. Elves are more dexterous on average than dwarves! Elves are more dexterous on average than orcs! I can keep going, but I'm sure you get the point. It's not about humans. It's about game balance as a whole, which means all races. It would have been stupid for them to balance the game around any one race and then after they were done, created the other races around the first race. Instead they would have just set baseline math and created every race, including humans, around that baseline. They don't say that. At face value, if I make an elven rogue with the array and put a 15 into charisma and a 13 into dex, with the +2 dex is my highest score. They didn't say, "You can make a rogue quickly by following these suggestions. First, you should make your Dexterity the highest possible number you can achieve." They are not assuming that you will choose a dex race when making that statement. 15 is the highest(unless you roll) that you can place. No. If I end up with 2 15s and a 14, both 15s are my highest stat. And now you're trying to tell me that they are dictating where you put your ASIs? Just no. they are not expecting an 18 by level 4 or 20 by level 8. Read ability score improvement. It says score or scores of your choice. There's not even a dex suggestion like you quote above there for you to rely on for this assumption of yours. You are going to need to quote the designers or game saying straight out that they expect +3 for it to be anything other than your(and the others making the claim) assumption. So am I. If the game is easy with a 14(and it is), then a 14 is good. Not viable. Good. I don't need to. Clerics are in type for dwarves. Dwarven clerics are a staple. Note, I'm talking about dwarves as a whole, because that's what the type encompasses. The type is not hill dwarf Clerics. It's dwarven clerics. Mountain dwarf clerics are as in type as hill dwarf clerics and mountain dwarves get no wisdom bonus. And done. You've been proven wrong. Um. Yes it does exist. Heck, even in real life you can specialize in animal biology, human biology, etc. Because different species have different biologies. Elven biology would be different from dwarven biology which is different than gnome biology. [/QUOTE]

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