Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Ability Score Increases (I've changed my mind.)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8381530" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>The feat is a power option, but not the 16 ASI. And if a Tielfing isn't powergaming by playing a warlock or a bard with 16 Charisma, how are they power gaming by playing a Monk with a 16 Dexterity? How is one okay, but the other not? Just because is isn't standard?</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>Maybe it worked for you. For me, it didn't. I had to sit down the player and tell him that no, I didn't care who it was or how stupid he thought her plan was, berating another player for a week over her RP decision to heal the townsfolk first was unacceptable. </p><p></p><p>The entire group was fairly optimized. Homebrewed to be more powerful. He was the only one I had an issue with, and it wasn't because he was a allowed a choice of ASIs, it was because he was an ass and no one had sat him down and told him that other people get to play their own characters. </p><p></p><p>I play with people who actually do powergame, who do take it to the ends of the system seeking the most power. And most of them don't pull this sort of BS. You are conflating a symptom with the disease.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Wow, you really are hurt by this. Yeah, no, the devs and me don't disagree on what makes a good player. A good player is one who sits down to have fun. A bad player sits down and takes away other people's fun. </p><p></p><p>Telling a good player that they can't optimize because then they might scream another player down at the table isn't solving anything. They wouldn't do that anyways. And a player who is going to do that, can still find ways to optimize even without Tashas. Play a wood elf cleric with a 16 wisdom and 16 dexterity. And then start going to town. And they might still yell at the other players to boot.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You know what I find funny about that? I'm not asking to be stronger than others. I'm asking to be equal. Wood Elf Cleric can get 16/16, why can't I play a Wood Elf Warlock who gets a 16 Charisma? I'm not going to be more powerful than if I picked a Tiefling instead, I might even be weaker to some optimizers. </p><p></p><p>And, again, if all we cared about was power, then we wouldn't even be asking in the first place, because the power already exists.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I spoke to harshly, but there are a lot of us who feel like there isn't really a lot of choice with Static Racial ASIs. We want to match the baseline of the party? We need to pick races that line up with our classes.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree. But you know what? Forcing a halfing wizard to be mechanically less effective doesn't stop the guy whose bullying the other player. In fact, in that guys mind, he might even be right, because there is an objective fact of the numbers involved. </p><p></p><p>So, by enforcing strict racial ASIs you aren't stopping anything. Your encouraging the mindset because they are right.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, maybe it worked for you, but the actual problems you are describing aren't caused by point buy or floating ASIs. They just aren't.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8381530, member: 6801228"] The feat is a power option, but not the 16 ASI. And if a Tielfing isn't powergaming by playing a warlock or a bard with 16 Charisma, how are they power gaming by playing a Monk with a 16 Dexterity? How is one okay, but the other not? Just because is isn't standard? Maybe it worked for you. For me, it didn't. I had to sit down the player and tell him that no, I didn't care who it was or how stupid he thought her plan was, berating another player for a week over her RP decision to heal the townsfolk first was unacceptable. The entire group was fairly optimized. Homebrewed to be more powerful. He was the only one I had an issue with, and it wasn't because he was a allowed a choice of ASIs, it was because he was an ass and no one had sat him down and told him that other people get to play their own characters. I play with people who actually do powergame, who do take it to the ends of the system seeking the most power. And most of them don't pull this sort of BS. You are conflating a symptom with the disease. Wow, you really are hurt by this. Yeah, no, the devs and me don't disagree on what makes a good player. A good player is one who sits down to have fun. A bad player sits down and takes away other people's fun. Telling a good player that they can't optimize because then they might scream another player down at the table isn't solving anything. They wouldn't do that anyways. And a player who is going to do that, can still find ways to optimize even without Tashas. Play a wood elf cleric with a 16 wisdom and 16 dexterity. And then start going to town. And they might still yell at the other players to boot. You know what I find funny about that? I'm not asking to be stronger than others. I'm asking to be equal. Wood Elf Cleric can get 16/16, why can't I play a Wood Elf Warlock who gets a 16 Charisma? I'm not going to be more powerful than if I picked a Tiefling instead, I might even be weaker to some optimizers. And, again, if all we cared about was power, then we wouldn't even be asking in the first place, because the power already exists. I spoke to harshly, but there are a lot of us who feel like there isn't really a lot of choice with Static Racial ASIs. We want to match the baseline of the party? We need to pick races that line up with our classes. I agree. But you know what? Forcing a halfing wizard to be mechanically less effective doesn't stop the guy whose bullying the other player. In fact, in that guys mind, he might even be right, because there is an objective fact of the numbers involved. So, by enforcing strict racial ASIs you aren't stopping anything. Your encouraging the mindset because they are right. Again, maybe it worked for you, but the actual problems you are describing aren't caused by point buy or floating ASIs. They just aren't. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Ability Score Increases (I've changed my mind.)
Top