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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8383254" data-attributes="member: 6801228">So people aska bout build advice, and they get build advice, but it is the wrong kind of advice so you want to protest Floating ASIs? I'll let you in on a secret, floating ASIs or not, you won't change the fact that when people ask for advice, they get it. And sure, it would be great to see people giving more varied advice, but again, that has nothing to do with floating ASIs. Take them or leave them, and you will not change that. With them though, you might get more varied advice.What do I think will happen when people ask for advice and then get it? They will likely follow the advice they got, if they like it. I mean, what do you want people to do? Do you want people to suggest that the player asking how to build the best wizard they can tell them to take a 10 strength and be a fist wizard who casts no spells? People ask questions, they get answers to those questions. If you don't like the answers they are getting, then give them different ones. And if people mock and deride you for giving less powerful but more fun advice, tell them "Yeah, it is less powerful, but I found this to be a lot more fun and it is powerful enough to get by" Maybe the other person will agree with you, maybe not, but your issues have nothing to do with Floating ASIs.See, this is your problem right here. And I do mean that it is a problem. You are looking at this as Binary. You've told people that want FLoating ASIs that it is optional, which is clearly a sign that you think they shouldn't do it. And you also have made the claim that "reasonable people" don't want it either. But, I'm a reasonable person. I'm not some monstrous player who will mock you for your build, or scream down a new player for doing something that isn't mechanically optimal. And I like Floating ASIs. They open options for me that weren't open before. And no matter how much I ask, no one has ever been able to tell me a single Floating ASI race/class combo that is markedly more powerful than what was already available. You want to limit the power gap? That is exactly what Floating ASIs do. They limit the Power Gap between the best and the rest. The top level of power are still where they are. However, since you refuse to imagine that anyone who disagress with you is anything except dishonest and toxic to the game, you are fighting back against a tool that can help you.What more powerful characters? Ask them to give you a list, because I've never seem a Floating ASI build that I couldn't match or exceed with Static ASI build. And of course optimizers are giving advice about optimizing characters. That's what they do. They were giving advice on how to optimize Static ASIs too, so by your logic those are powergaming as well.We've said the benefits. It allows character concepts that don't fee, hampered by being behind the curve. Instead of playing a Tiefling warlock who gets +3 attack, damage, spell DC and every social skill, I can play an and get those same starting values, and I can play the story of them being in a marriage arranged by their Fey Godmother to marry into a Faerie Noblehouse. Instead of playing the Goliath Barbarian whose getting +3 attack and damage, I can play the Goliath Druid, who speaks for the Mountain and seeks to find a lost relic. Sure, you'll tell me I could play those characters anyways, if I just gave up on that +3 then I could do anything and not worry about it. But, no, I can't. If I could I would have done that the last thousand times someone talked down to me about how I'm just wrong. But, surprisingly, my own expeirences at my own games, struggling to succeed with characters who have that +3 tell me that I'd probably have a worse time of it with only a +2. And I'm sure you'll tell me that challenge is an illusion, and that my DM would certainly start pulling their punches if I made weaker characters. But no, first of all, they wouldn't. And second of all, they only might if everyone else was making an non-archetypical character. But if they are all making archetypical characters, then I'm the one left playing the oddball and struggling. For no other reason than because some people don't like it when you play against type and are effective at it (because real players succeed anyways or some nonsense) and others like you are arguing that if I want to be on even footing I must be a powergamer who derides others and wants to force them to make the choices I like instead of the ones that they like, so I should definetly not be allowed to make the choice I like and be forced to make the choice you like.Why would that matter. You asked for a non-powergaming Tasha's build that is actually being played. I gave that to you. Does my build somehow change if you think I'm a powergamer? Does that mean my race or numbers are somehow a code?And this is binary thinking. Let me ask you this. You mentioned Treantmonk. Personally, I think the guy is way off base, but you seem to think he's pretty smart. And he is certainly a powergamer. Whose powergaming guide did he read? Whose build is he following? Because, you keep saying that all powergamers just parrot the words of the guides, that anyone who just builds a character without referencing a guide is not a powergamer, so he must be reading someone's guide and using that to parrot his characters, right?</blockquote>

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