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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8383483" data-attributes="member: 6801228">And yet you claim that it is unreasonable that every adult might be born with an abstract 15 in any of 6 stats. You realize that there are 720 possible combinations of stats with the standard array, yet you want to decry them as "cookie cutter" and unrealistic? Your claim is baseless, relying only on a preconceived notion that has no basis. If being in the same weight bracket doesn't make you identical, how can possibly having one of six values in one of six places make you "cookie cutter"?This has nothing to do with my argument. You have put forth that everyone being born with the same stats is unrealistic. Firstly, no one is born with their stats period. They are obviously grown over time through a combination of factors including training. So, your premise is false before we get anywhere else. Secondly, since they can train we must ask, is it unrealistic to have multiple people in the same profession train to the same level? No. It is not. So, between being born, training, and general knowledge of combinations and large numbers in the population compared to small numbers of player characters, there is no way I can find to say it is unrealistic. Perhaps slightly unlikely, but it doesn't matter. Unrealistic doesn't start until you get far far more PCs than you have ever seen in your entire career. No, at my tables they've pretty much always chosen to roll. I don't usually do point-buy, but I don't think I've had someone choose the standard array in my last five games easily. The difference is, I always gave them the option, and told them that it was fine, and they wanted to roll anyways. If you have someone who wanted to use the standard array, you'd tell them no, because you think it makes for an unrealistic cookie cutter character. Even if they were the only person to use it. Which is nonsensical.The community always sets the archetypes. No designer in the world can counter-act that without extraordinary circumstances.Words have meaning, I wasn't talking about the "vast majority" of dwarven clerics, I was talking about the one in the party. Who, more than likely, has a +1 or +2 dex mod. Making them as graceful or more than your average elf.But the only dwarf in the party is more dexterous than the average elf. Nearly guaranteed. So, if your elves are going to be more dexterous than the dwarf, then they either must be extraordinary themselves, or it actually doesn't matter what their stats are. I'm sure that's how you've described it as well right, when a dwarf has a dex of 12 through 14 on their character sheet, you've said they are as graceful as an elf.</blockquote>

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